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[SAS88]

Hey guys, I want your opinions on the top 5 Ayrton Senna races excluding the 1989 Suzuka GP. It doesn't necessarily have to be one that he came 1st in.

Doing a compilation for my dad since he isn't too tech savvy and misses the old races.

Cheers

[McLaren Fan]

He had a lot of great races, so it's tough to say. I'll get the ball rolling any how:

1984 Monaco Grand Prix;
1985 Portuguese Grand Prix;
1988 British Grand Prix;
1988 Japanese Grand Prix; and
1993 European Grand Prix.

[SAS88]

He had a lot of great races, so it's tough to say. I'll get the ball rolling any how:

1984 Monaco Grand Prix;
1985 Portuguese Grand Prix;
1988 British Grand Prix;
1988 Japanese Grand Prix; and
1993 European Grand Prix.

Thanks for that list, I'll look them up. By the way, why do you have extra years for McLaren and Senna in the WC's? Senna never won the 1989 WDC, and even if he was awarded the Suzuka GP, his points wouldn't have been enough.

[McLaren Fan]

The extra years are there because McLaren and Senna were the legitimate and moral champions, only having the titles taken away from them by political machinations. It is true that if you added the points from the 1989 Japanese Grand Prix onto Senna's tally, he would not have been champion. But there was more race to go in the season and Prost really should have been disqualified from the championship for his actions, as Schumacher was in 1997.

[EwanM]

The extra years are there because McLaren and Senna were the legitimate and moral champions, only having the titles taken away from them by political machinations. It is true that if you added the points from the 1989 Japanese Grand Prix onto Senna's tally, he would not have been champion. But there was more race to go in the season and Prost really should have been disqualified from the championship for his actions, as Schumacher was in 1997.

It was still the winner takes all system by the time of the Japanese GP, by the points logic Prost would have only needed to finish 2nd in Japan to be the WDC.

I mean if you look at the points:
Prost 76
Senna 60 - If Senna had kept his Japanese GP result he would have only been up to 69. Therefore Prost would still lead the championship on points. Leaving Australia all to play for...

I mean if you used the points system fully Prost would have had 81.

[EwanM]

Sadly because of this Prost felt unjustified and collided with Senna. I don't defend Prost's actions, but I guess you could see it coming: like you could predict that Senna would take Prost out the following year. Now i know the circumstance in 1990 were different, I know it was revengeful.

[McLaren Fan]

Ballestre tried to save Prost in 1990 as well. There was more to Senna taking him of than just simple revenge. The stewards at the track agreed to allow Senna to start on the clean side of the track so he could take advantage of his pole position. Balestre found out about this and ordered that the stewards' decision be overturned. If Balestre had not done that, we would have seen a fair battle for the title.

Ayrton Senna: World Drivers' Champion 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991.

[EwanM]

Ballestre tried to save Prost in 1990 as well. There was more to Senna taking him of than just simple revenge. The stewards at the track agreed to allow Senna to start on the clean side of the track so he could take advantage of his pole position. Balestre found out about this and ordered that the stewards' decision be overturned. If Balestre had not done that, we would have seen a fair battle for the title.

Ayrton Senna: World Drivers' Champion 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991.

Yes, I know all of this, but that still doesn't mean that Prost didn't deserve the 1989 championship. Of course Senna's DQ in Suzuka is a bit dubious.
Sadly we can't always have moral World Champions. Schumacher certainly was dubious in his pursuit, and you could argue Senna was too in 1990. Grid Position or not there was still a motor race and it was Senna's decision to take Prost, just like it was the Frenchman's decision the previous year.

[McLaren Fan]

I don't buy that sort of argument for a second. Prost forfeited his right to the 1989 title when he decided to ram Senna off the circuit. In 1990, Senna was right to take a stand against Balestre and Prost's shoddy behaviour.

[EwanM]

I don't buy that sort of argument for a second. Prost forfeited his right to the 1989 title when he decided to ram Senna off the circuit. In 1990, Senna was right to take a stand against Balestre and Prost's shoddy behaviour.

I don't buy the argument that Senna was the better man to attempt ram Prost off the track to achieve some sort of "revenge". Both Senna and Prost were as bad as each with some of the moves they pulled in their Mclaren Days together. Prost felt vindicated at the end of 1989 as to how he was treated at Mclaren after his announcement that he was leaving for Ferrari.

I think yourself and I are never going to agree over Senna and Prost - mainly because your loyalties lie more favourably with one and mine with the other.

[McLaren Fan]

It's going nothing to do with loyalties for me. I'm more than happy to stick the boot into organisations or people whom I support when they are in the wrong.

[EwanM]

It's going nothing to do with loyalties for me. I'm more than happy to stick the boot into organisations or people whom I support when they are in the wrong.

Yes, but the situation in 1989 and what proceeded it, creates many different arguments for both sides (much like at the moment). All i'm saying is that I am of a different opinion to you.

[McLaren Fan]

Prost was very good at being le politicien.

[EwanM]

Prost was very good at being le politicien.

Indeed. And he set an example for future generations of race drivers. That doesn't mean he wasn't a fantastic driver. Arguably the smartest.
Not as fast outright as Senna, but smarter. If that makes any sort of sense?

[McLaren Fan]

In my view, Prost was the most savvy driver ever. People big up Schumacher in this department, but Schumacher raced in an ear when radio technology was very advanced and he had Brawn telling him what to do. Prost had to manage his own races with next to no input from the pit wall.