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[McLaren Fan]

From F1 Live:

Formula One team bosses have travelled to Geneva, Switzerland, for Thursday's meeting of the FOTA alliance.

We previously reported that the sport's ten teams intend to discuss Bernie Ecclestone's proposed 'medals' scoring system for the first time, as well as a possible shake-up for the qualifying format.

More pressing on the agenda, however, is cost-cutting, under the threat that FIA President Max Mosley will impose draconian measures if the teams cannot themselves propose worthwhile money-saving proposals.

With Mosley already threatening to proceed with engine standardisation, the pressure is on FOTA to put together a cohesive package before next week's meeting of the FIA's World Motor Sport Council.

"A lot has been defined for 2009, more is to come for 2010 and 2011 to reduce costs and improve the show.
These are the leading principles," Ferrari spokesman Luca Colajanni confirmed to The Guardian newspaper.

Believed to be the most radical of the proposals for discussion is a move from 2.4 litre V8 engines for 2011 to fuel-efficient turbo 1.8 litre engines.

This specification, using about 30 percent less fuel than the current engines, could pave the way for a ban on mid-race refuelling.

Source: GMM
© CAPSIS International

[KyrosV]

Believed to be the most radical of the proposals for discussion is a move from 2.4 litre V8 engines for 2011 to fuel-efficient turbo 1.8 litre engines.

This specification, using about 30 percent less fuel than the current engines, could pave the way for a ban on mid-race refuelling.

Look at this bud...

[7UpJordan]

That doesn't sound bad if the Turbo engines are just as powerful as the ones we loved from the 80's.

[texasmr2]

Smaller displacement mean's either fewer CC's or cylinder's take your pick but I would rather see a 'boosted' engine against n/a engine's with reg's depicting max boost for the turbo's and a max rpm for the n/a's.

[bud]

Believed to be the most radical of the proposals for discussion is a move from 2.4 litre V8 engines for 2011 to fuel-efficient turbo 1.8 litre engines.

This specification, using about 30 percent less fuel than the current engines, could pave the way for a ban on mid-race refuelling.

Look at this bud...

displacement mate

[f1usa]

In the other post on forum, Honda withdraws from F1, how many teams withdrawing from F1 and how many canceled races before Bernie defaults on his loans. I see the signing of LG as Global Partner, a desperate financial lifeline. There is a chance this global financial crisis could accomplish what we want, a new era of F1 without Bernie or Max. Do you think the team owners can/will take control of their own destiny.

[KyrosV]

Believed to be the most radical of the proposals for discussion is a move from 2.4 litre V8 engines for 2011 to fuel-efficient turbo 1.8 litre engines.

This specification, using about 30 percent less fuel than the current engines, could pave the way for a ban on mid-race refuelling.

Look at this bud...

displacement mate

Yeah but my whole point (on the other thread) was that its a greener alternative

It would be good for even racing, because they will be on the same fuel load without pitting, of course they will still need tyres. After this they can move to using less fuel to last a race.

Its a positive move i think

[FerrariFan63]

The first thing I thought when I saw the title of this thread was "and I hope those heads are banged together".

I can't believe the medal proposal will be seriously discussed. What it will do is benefit fast but fragile cars versus slower but more reliable cars. As a car which blows up 1/3 of the time, has an engine penalty 1/3 of the time, but wins the remaining 1/3 of the races will probably win the championship.

The whole proposal is just silly.

[bud]

Believed to be the most radical of the proposals for discussion is a move from 2.4 litre V8 engines for 2011 to fuel-efficient turbo 1.8 litre engines.

This specification, using about 30 percent less fuel than the current engines, could pave the way for a ban on mid-race refuelling.

Look at this bud...

displacement mate

Yeah but my whole point (on the other thread) was that its a greener alternative

It would be good for even racing, because they will be on the same fuel load without pitting, of course they will still need tyres. After this they can move to using less fuel to last a race.

Its a positive move i think

using 30% less fuel is hardly classifiable as being green, or even greener. the fact remains they will still rely 100% on fossil fuels and the emissions will still be there.

[KyrosV]

Believed to be the most radical of the proposals for discussion is a move from 2.4 litre V8 engines for 2011 to fuel-efficient turbo 1.8 litre engines.

This specification, using about 30 percent less fuel than the current engines, could pave the way for a ban on mid-race refuelling.

Look at this bud...

displacement mate

Yeah but my whole point (on the other thread) was that its a greener alternative

It would be good for even racing, because they will be on the same fuel load without pitting, of course they will still need tyres. After this they can move to using less fuel to last a race.

Its a positive move i think

using 30% less fuel is hardly classifiable as being green, or even greener. the fact remains they will still rely 100% on fossil fuels and the emissions will still be there.

I hear they maybe implementing Biofuels like they do in indy for 2011 too..

and anyway all together the consumption and overall emissions will be lower

its a step forward to becoming green

[bud]

Bio fuels still have harmful emission though. Besides F1 should be pioneering other forms of power plants with 0 emissions not this path if they truelly want to be green.

this seems to just prolong the use of the internal combustion engine.

[KyrosV]

Bio fuels still have harmful emission though. Besides F1 should be pioneering other forms of power plants with 0 emissions not this path if they truelly want to be green.

this seems to just prolong the use of the internal combustion engine.

yeah I agree with the biofuels issue, Ive read a few news reads about how the production of Biofuels are not so green them selves and damaging to the enviroment.

But I cant see anything revolutionary coming up for powering an F1 car. Really your everyday Road cars should all be running 0 Emission engines and then F1 teams will take them on to 'beef' them up to high speeds for racing.

Or F1 manufacturer teams build the low emission race engines that will filter down to road cars?

Its hard to see what route they will take...and in this current financial climate

[FerrariFan63]

[
using 30% less fuel is hardly classifiable as being green, or even greener. the fact remains they will still rely 100% on fossil fuels and the emissions will still be there.

Using less fuel would certainly make them greener. Any refocussing from maximum power to economy (e.g. limited fuel allocations) would mean that R&D switches from how to get the maximum amount of fuel burnt to how to get the maximum amount of energy from the fuel. And this research may have spinoffs which can be used to increase the efficiency of production engines, which may have more benefit.

But a bigger step could be made if they changed the engine to be a diesel engine running on unrefined vegetable oil. The research then put into F1 engines would, I would expect, have more benefits for energy use. As the current state of knowledge as to how to use vegetable oil for fuel is much more primitive than that for diesel engines burning diesel oil, or for petrol engines. And hence there's more to discover.

It would also reduce the power of the engines (possibly partially compensated for with increased displacement).

[bud]

[
using 30% less fuel is hardly classifiable as being green, or even greener. the fact remains they will still rely 100% on fossil fuels and the emissions will still be there.

Using less fuel would certainly make them greener. Any refocussing from maximum power to economy (e.g. limited fuel allocations) would mean that R&D switches from how to get the maximum amount of fuel burnt to how to get the maximum amount of energy from the fuel. And this research may have spinoffs which can be used to increase the efficiency of production engines, which may have more benefit.

you missed my point about emissions using less fuel but still emitting harmful emissions is hardly what i would call green, and to suggest something is greener than before is just a PR term used by morons!

[McLaren Fan]

Any significant "green" measures is going to cost a hell of a lot of money. Few teams would be willing to spend this money in the current economic climate. It's certainly a bit of a headache for the powers that be.

Turbocharged engines may not be a bad interim measure. Smaller engine displacement will bring about lower fuel consumption and still produce a lot of power, plus a few of the features of turbochargers could be tweaked to make the engines more green.

To be honest, Formula One engines are boring. They've basically been the same since 1989, so it's time we had some change.