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[KyrosV]

Looking back at the last 5 gps, Toyota & Renault have been making leaps and bounds in developments. It looks like they are in for a tight battle for 4th in the constructors and probably focusing on 2008 more than 2009. At the rate they are going they are already faster than the BMWs (who have already achieved there goals this year and probably working on a championship winning car next year) and at the last 2 races have been snapping at the heals of the ferraris and mclarens with 2nd places for each Piquet and Glock respectavly so if they keep it up will we see them winning races at the end of the year? It would be quite interesting with this private battle influencing the championship battle between Kimi, Massa and whats his name...

[Kiwi_Chris]

I dont know if they will win this year but hopefully they dont falter in the off season and produce some quick cars, but it will be hard for them to balance out the development between this year and next year. I think Toyota have a better chance of doing that because from the sounds of it they have deeper pockets than Renault

[EwanM]

I dont know if they will win this year but hopefully they dont falter in the off season and produce some quick cars, but it will be hard for them to balance out the development between this year and next year. I think Toyota have a better chance of doing that because from the sounds of it they have deeper pockets than Renault

I don't see either teams winning this year, unless there is another Montreal, even then BMW are still strong.
Renault budget themselves alot more than the other manufacturers, but they did so in 2005/6. They know how to win championships so you never know for 2009.
Toyota will come good in the future. It may take a few more years, but I can see them and Honda being front runners in the future.

[bud]

No

[McLaren Fan]

No

That's the straight answer.

A couple of seasons ago I remember that Toyota produced a half-decent car and got a few podiums. People were hailing this as the team's breakthrough. Where have they gone since? Backwards. This season is the first time they've produced a reasonable car since. In order to do this, they are going flat out, sacrificing the development of their 2009 car. That's not the sign of an efficient team. If you have Toyota's cash you be able to develop two cars simultaneously. Toyota are embarrassment to Formula One. I doubt that budget caps will help Toyota. If they can't get it right with easily the biggest budget on the grid, they'll never get it right with much less cash.

Renault, with half Toyota's budget, have done far better. They were punching above their weight in 2005 and 2006, winning the titles partly due to the failure of others rather than because of their own strengths. The team's position now is probably the best they can really hope for. Unless serious budget caps come into Formula One and Renault manage employ some quality personnel, the team won't be competing for championships.

[KyrosV]

they are going flat out, sacrificing the development of their 2009 car. That's not the sign of an efficient team. If you have Toyota's cash you be able to develop two cars simultaneously.

how do you know theyre not??

[EwanM]

they are going flat out, sacrificing the development of their 2009 car. That's not the sign of an efficient team. If you have Toyota's cash you be able to develop two cars simultaneously.

how do you know theyre not??

I doubt they are sacrificing development to any major degree in comparison with Ferrari and Mclaren.
They have the endless amount of cash after all it seems.

Plus while I concede they did punch above their weight in 05 and 06 with the new rules catching the best out. They had a very good car in both years, maybe not always the quickest but certainly it had the reliability and consistency to win world championships. This is Renault we are talking about, the Bennetton boys know how to win races and world titles, and Renault can make engines. I just feel they have been hurt by sticking so close to the regulations and cost cutting incentives. They should have followed the other teams examples and aimed to get more horsepower.
They show that you can perfectly win a world champion and compete with less money. The way F1 should be. I'd agree Mclaren Fan, budget caps (though hard to impose and stipulate) would be a good move.

[f1maniac95]

I don't see either of them winning this year but if they keep improving then next year Toyota probaboly will win a grand prix.

[al4x]

renault had the better car in reliability, and a damn good driver who got on well with the carr! i love those 2 years!

i would love 2 see toyota and renault competing at the top, too me, honda have donr the worst this year as regard to money in:results out, toyota really are beating them as japanese makers

renault and toyota will not win this year, and without the budget cap renault will struggle, but with it i expect them to be WINNING!