FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[whatsnewpussycat]

Just a thought - ........if the FIA after post race scrutineering at the French Grand Prix, found an illegal device fitted to a teams car, then they would remove it - and depending on the colour of the said car a punishment would or would not be handed out.
If that device gave a form of traction control and had been in position for the whole of the 2008 season so far, then the drivers of that team's cars would not be used to driving without drivers' aids.
Fast forward to the next GP at Silverstone and in the dry - no problem. Wet race revealed a lot of errors by certain drivers including both drivers of the red cars as they fought to keep the back behind the front.
Fast forward again to the German Grand Prix - a track that has up to then suited the red cars with it's medium downforce circuit requirements but high mechanical grip. Same result - red cars nowhere.
Makes you think doesn't it - or have the other teams - especially McLaren & BMW improved that much and the red cars gone backwards in more ways than one.

[Mikep99]

I would say McLaren has made a few major improvements, Hammy is on a high confidence wise & Ferrari have stagnated or slightly gone backwards.
This weekend should tell us more but then again I thing this track is more suited to the McLaren so maybe won't be a true indication.

[przemo]

I would say that Silverstone was a setup problem. In the German GP Massa did well, Hamilton was not a person to beat and Raikkonen had poor quali which I think compromised his race. Nothing to worry about, let's see how they do this weekend.

[EwanM]

We'll see this weekend. I don't think they are as far off as the last 2 races have shown.

[McLaren Fan]

I would say McLaren has made a few major improvements, Hammy is on a high confidence wise & Ferrari have stagnated or slightly gone backwards.
This weekend should tell us more but then again I thing this track is more suited to the McLaren so maybe won't be a true indication.

I think some people are overstating how good the MP4-23 is on tight circuits. At Monaco, Ferrari expected to be trounced, but, when you factor in fuel and the conditions etc., McLaren were not that far ahead. Likewise, the tracks at which Ferrari were meant to clean up on saw McLaren not be too far behind them. In Turkey the McLaren's were surprisingly quick. It was a similar story in France, but various penalties disguised McLaren's pace. Both teams have made better all-round cars this season. Ferrari may have lost out in the development stakes slightly and have made a few gaffes, but they have the finances, staff and infrastructure to improve very quickly. I'm certainly not expecting McLaren to win with ease at the weekend.

[EwanM]

I would say McLaren has made a few major improvements, Hammy is on a high confidence wise & Ferrari have stagnated or slightly gone backwards.
This weekend should tell us more but then again I thing this track is more suited to the McLaren so maybe won't be a true indication.

I think some people are overstating how good the MP4-23 is on tight circuits. At Monaco, Ferrari expected to be trounced, but, when you factor in fuel and the conditions etc., McLaren were not that far ahead. Likewise, the tracks at which Ferrari were meant to clean up on saw McLaren not be too far behind them. In Turkey the McLaren's were surprisingly quick. It was a similar story in France, but various penalties disguised McLaren's pace. Both teams have made better all-round cars this season. Ferrari may have lost out in the development stakes slightly and have made a few gaffes, but they have the finances, staff and infrastructure to improve very quickly. I'm certainly not expecting McLaren to win with ease at the weekend.

Exactly, Raikkonen pushed Hamilton very hard last year around the tight and twisty Hungaroring... no reason to think that won't happen again.

[AKR]

Ferrari's pace in Jerez testing doesn't convince me at all and McLaren were quicker there as well. And Hungary is a better suited track to McLaren as well. Reading some reviews about this upcoming race on www.planetf1.com wasn't to good news for the red team either. What can I say, if worst comes to worst I hope Heikki stuffs up and at least if Hamilton wins both Ferraris can finish high and salvage the Constructors Title.

[Martin]

The initial point that WNPC made is that could there have some some kind of TC device on red cars?
Although I am no Ferrari fan I do not think that this would be the case, because it would have been a major 'news' item, and there would have been pressure to penalise the team if this illegal devise had been used all season.

[welshie]

Ferrari certainly don't have traction control hidden on their cars, otherwise Massa would have been able to keep the car pointed in the right direction at Silverstone. If anything the Ferrari engine is too aggressive in the wet making it extremely hard to ease the power on in wet conditions.
McLaren on the other hand do have the second set of paddles that alter the ferocity of the engine, but as it is manually activated it can't be classed as a driver aid in the typical sense.

With all the situations, problems and driver errors this season, it's actually been quite hard to gauge which car has more raw speed.

[Martin]

Ferrari certainly don't have traction control hidden on their cars, otherwise Massa would have been able to keep the car pointed in the right direction at Silverstone. If anything the Ferrari engine is too aggressive in the wet making it extremely hard to ease the power on in wet conditions.

With all the situations, problems and driver errors this season, it's actually been quite hard to gauge which car has more raw speed.

WNPCs point was that a TC device was discovered by the FIA just before Silverstone - thats why they did not perform well.

[welshie]

Ferrari certainly don't have traction control hidden on their cars, otherwise Massa would have been able to keep the car pointed in the right direction at Silverstone. If anything the Ferrari engine is too aggressive in the wet making it extremely hard to ease the power on in wet conditions.

With all the situations, problems and driver errors this season, it's actually been quite hard to gauge which car has more raw speed.

WNPCs point was that a TC device was discovered by the FIA just before Silverstone - thats why they did not perform well.

Ahh my bad. I thought he meant "if as in if" not "if as in they did"!
Is this public knowledge? As I had absolutely no idea?!
Or is it speculation?

[EwanM]

Ferrari certainly don't have traction control hidden on their cars, otherwise Massa would have been able to keep the car pointed in the right direction at Silverstone. If anything the Ferrari engine is too aggressive in the wet making it extremely hard to ease the power on in wet conditions.

With all the situations, problems and driver errors this season, it's actually been quite hard to gauge which car has more raw speed.

WNPCs point was that a TC device was discovered by the FIA just before Silverstone - thats why they did not perform well.

Ahh my bad. I thought he meant "if as in if" not "if as in they did"!
Is this public knowledge? As I had absolutely no idea?!
Or is it speculation?

Speculation. It's the first time i've heard it.

[welshie]

Ferrari certainly don't have traction control hidden on their cars, otherwise Massa would have been able to keep the car pointed in the right direction at Silverstone. If anything the Ferrari engine is too aggressive in the wet making it extremely hard to ease the power on in wet conditions.

With all the situations, problems and driver errors this season, it's actually been quite hard to gauge which car has more raw speed.

WNPCs point was that a TC device was discovered by the FIA just before Silverstone - thats why they did not perform well.

Ahh my bad. I thought he meant "if as in if" not "if as in they did"!
Is this public knowledge? As I had absolutely no idea?!
Or is it speculation?

Speculation. It's the first time i've heard it.

I thought as much. I honestly think that the Ferrari engine was just too aggressive for the conditions at Silverstone.

[McLaren Fan]

Ferrari certainly don't have traction control hidden on their cars, otherwise Massa would have been able to keep the car pointed in the right direction at Silverstone. If anything the Ferrari engine is too aggressive in the wet making it extremely hard to ease the power on in wet conditions.

Raikkonen managed alright at Silverstone with the same engine, same power oversteer etc.. If Ferrari had not of botched his tyre choice, Raikkonen may even have been as fast as Hamilton.

Ferrari certainly don't have traction control hidden on their cars...

Having read a little more into this, there is a very good chance that Ferrari have a similar system to McLaren, only that theirs is not as user friendly, being operated via a button on the steering wheel. Renault recently introduced a system similar to the one found on the MP4-23. Apparently Alonso doesn't like it and feels it's worth only a tenth of a second at best.

[racechick]

I read in last weeks race report that it wasnt so much that the ferrari's were off the pace (had they been racing only Kovi, it would have been the usual close battle) It was more that Hamilton was able to adapt his driving quickly to changes made to the McLaren, and that gave him the avantage. The wet helped at Silverstone but by Germany he had been in the simulator enough to change his driving in the dry also.

There is an article on the same thing by Mark Hughes in this weeks autosport. Im no techie as ive said before so I'll try to give the main points.

Lewis's natural driving asks a lot of the front of the car. If that is to his likng he can sort out the back and even use it to advantage to slide it and get a quicker direction change. He preferred last years car to this one early in the season. Added to Lewis' driving style, the Macca is hard on its front tyres, generates a lot of load, which lewis likes but it overheats them and they're still too hot at the next braking zone(especially on Lewis' car).
Technical data was telling them that if they surrendered front end grip the car would perform better and the radiators be better fed. This went completely against lewis' preffered driving style but the performance gains were too great to ignore so they did it. At silverstone he had the changes and struggled in quali but the rain came for the race. Between then and germany he used the simulator until he adapted his style to take full use of the changes. Heiki was not at ease with it so he ran more front end and a gurney??(is that a funny face??).

So there it is and Mark Hughes is suggesting that it is McLarens greater use of simulators more than anything that has helped them pull ahead, they have had one for two years, Ferrari have only just started building its own driving simulator.
I think I just about kept up with the technical stuff there Im sure you techies will understand i better