what engine Freeze!

[bud]

According to whispers in the Istanbul paddock, Ferrari may have found a way to creep ahead in the horse power department this season despite the current 'freeze' on engine development.

It is common knowledge that, not only are the Maranello based team's drivers getting the best starts off the grid, the V8 power plant in the back of the F2008 is now perhaps the most powerful in the entire field.

Last year, however, the engine situation between teams seemed closer, leading to suggestions that Ferrari's permitted tweaks for 2008 have added tangible performance to the unit.

The German magazine Auto Motor und Sport estimates Ferrari's horse power gain compared to last year at 'within the two-digit range'.

Most engine manufacturers made permitted tweaks to their V8 designs over the winter, but it is rumoured that some rival teams are unhappy that Ferrari's changes - apparently green-lighted by the FIA - seem to have resulted in a significant performance gain.


Auto Motor und Sport said Ferrari's rivals are concerned that the Italian team's 2008 changes were submitted "under the pretext of reliability problems".

"The (engine freeze) rules do not allow any great leaps. So whether a development has taken place to increase performance, I cannot judge," BMW motor sport director Mario Theissen said at Istanbul Park.

"But I assume the normal procedures have taken place. I have no suspicions," he added.

Ferrari always find "loopholes"

[Mikep99]

According to whispers in the Istanbul paddock, Ferrari may have found a way to creep ahead in the horse power department this season despite the current 'freeze' on engine development.

It is common knowledge that, not only are the Maranello based team's drivers getting the best starts off the grid, the V8 power plant in the back of the F2008 is now perhaps the most powerful in the entire field.

Last year, however, the engine situation between teams seemed closer, leading to suggestions that Ferrari's permitted tweaks for 2008 have added tangible performance to the unit.

The German magazine Auto Motor und Sport estimates Ferrari's horse power gain compared to last year at 'within the two-digit range'.

Most engine manufacturers made permitted tweaks to their V8 designs over the winter, but it is rumoured that some rival teams are unhappy that Ferrari's changes - apparently green-lighted by the FIA - seem to have resulted in a significant performance gain.


Auto Motor und Sport said Ferrari's rivals are concerned that the Italian team's 2008 changes were submitted "under the pretext of reliability problems".

"The (engine freeze) rules do not allow any great leaps. So whether a development has taken place to increase performance, I cannot judge," BMW motor sport director Mario Theissen said at Istanbul Park.

"But I assume the normal procedures have taken place. I have no suspicions," he added.

Ferrari always find "loopholes"

Now what was it that Enzo said ?

'aerodynamics is for people who cant make engines'

[bud]

why does ferrari use aerodynamics then?

[texasmr2]

I love loophole's as long as they are not in breach of the reg's. I would like to hear more about the accusation that those 'loophole's' were green-lighted by the FIA. Without some sort of proof it is still just hearsay.

[Mikep99]

why does ferrari use aerodynamics then?

Yeh they now use that too, BUT they are the engine masters

[bud]

why does ferrari use aerodynamics then?

Yeh they now use that too, BUT they are the engine masters

having to make power gains in the guise of reliability upgrades would not make them masters

its like the Japanese whalers hunting for scientific purposes

[Mikep99]

why does ferrari use aerodynamics then?

Yeh they now use that too, BUT they are the engine masters

having to make power gains in the guise of reliability upgrades would not make them masters

its like the Japanese whalers hunting for scientific purposes

And you have proof of that do you or is it just same old same old

[bud]

since when has proof been needed in F1 of late?

[Mikep99]

since when has proof been needed in F1 of late?

Bud all I can say is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaiSHcHM0PA&feature=related

[f1ea]

Ferrari TIMEWISE is not really that far ahead. If you look at Q and sometimes even race pace, Mclaren and BMW are very close. Not so in the consistency from the drivers department. Kimi and Massa are ussually close, while the BMW and Mclaren duos can end up more mixed up in the field / race...

Yet somehow now, its evil that Ferrari have managed to find some engine gain (even if it were true). This is what racing is all about. As long as they don't breach the rules. Winning by breaking the rules is cheating, and by no means admirable or honorable, no matter which sport.

[McLaren Fan]

I think this issue highlights once again why we need an impartial governing body. In most other sports, when the governing body makes a decision, people are reasonably happy to accept it, and, if not, some form of arbitration takes place. In this case, Ferrari seem to have gained suspicious number of horses over the winter and the FIA have given the all-clear to these changes. Given the FIA's track record and close links with Ferrari, you have to ask would Ferrari's tweaks have been allowed to have been done on Mercedes' engine (i.e. pertaining to McLaren)? Would more be said if the changes were made to Mercedes' engine? (I think back to, say, McLaren's rear-wheel braking system in 1997/8.) At the minute it's just speculation, even more so than in the J-damper case. If Ferrari have bent the rules and the FIA given the nod, I can't say I'll be surprised and it will only make the sport look more farcical than it already is. If Ferrari just came up with a good idea, then good on them.

[Mikep99]

I think this issue highlights once again why we need an impartial governing body. In most other sports, when the governing body makes a decision, people are reasonably happy to accept it, and, if not, some form of arbitration takes place. In this case, Ferrari seem to have gained suspicious number of horses over the winter and the FIA have given the all-clear to these changes. Given the FIA's track record and close links with Ferrari, you have to ask would Ferrari's tweaks have been allowed to have been done on Mercedes' engine (i.e. pertaining to McLaren)? Would more be said if the changes were made to Mercedes' engine? (I think back to, say, McLaren's rear-wheel braking system in 1997/8.) At the minute it's just speculation, even more so than in the J-damper case. If Ferrari have bent the rules and the FIA given the nod, I can't say I'll be surprised and it will only make the sport look more farcical than it already is. If Ferrari just came up with a good idea, then good on them.

Yes you could be right MF but maybe just maybe this could also possible have something to do with it.
Just a thought

In 2004, Ferrari also surpassed Ford as the most successful F1 engine manufacturer, with 182 wins (to Ford's 176 wins). Due to the availability of the Cosworth V8 to private teams, a total of 6,639 Ford-powered cars were entered between 1967 and 2004, compared to 1,979 starts for Ferrari and Petronas-badged engines during the same period.

[McLaren Fan]

I think this issue highlights once again why we need an impartial governing body. In most other sports, when the governing body makes a decision, people are reasonably happy to accept it, and, if not, some form of arbitration takes place. In this case, Ferrari seem to have gained suspicious number of horses over the winter and the FIA have given the all-clear to these changes. Given the FIA's track record and close links with Ferrari, you have to ask would Ferrari's tweaks have been allowed to have been done on Mercedes' engine (i.e. pertaining to McLaren)? Would more be said if the changes were made to Mercedes' engine? (I think back to, say, McLaren's rear-wheel braking system in 1997/8.) At the minute it's just speculation, even more so than in the J-damper case. If Ferrari have bent the rules and the FIA given the nod, I can't say I'll be surprised and it will only make the sport look more farcical than it already is. If Ferrari just came up with a good idea, then good on them.

Yes you could be right MF but maybe just maybe this could also possible have something to do with it.
Just a thought

In 2004, Ferrari also surpassed Ford as the most successful F1 engine manufacturer, with 182 wins (to Ford's 176 wins). Due to the availability of the Cosworth V8 to private teams, a total of 6,639 Ford-powered cars were entered between 1967 and 2004, compared to 1,979 starts for Ferrari and Petronas-badged engines during the same period.

I never said Ferrari were guilty. I said Ferrari could be guilty and could just as easily have come up with a great idea. Sadly, due to the sport's pathetic leadership, we will never know for sure.

[Mikep99]

I never said Ferrari were guilty. I said Ferrari could be guilty and could just as easily have come up with a great idea. Sadly, due to the sport's pathetic leadership, we will never know for sure.

Yes I would agree with that, but we know what the first impression ALWAYS is

When it come to Ferrari two things ring true.

1. They are damed if they do & damed if they don't.
2. Shoot first and ask questions later.

[darwin dali]

Everybody is pushing the envelopes. I remember Matchett saying something about engine parts and time and money being invested in development of those parts that is considered all within the regs.
Ferrari just seem to be a step ahead of their competition as it has been a lot of times in the past. Remember those wheel covers and the poopooing of them and crying foul last year? Now almost everybody runs them.
I wouldn't be surprised if Ferrari (and many other teams for that matter) have at least one designated employee who knows the technical regs in his/her sleep and whose only job is to dream up new ways of exploiting the rules and finding imaginative ways to bypass restrictions.