FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[overboost]

Looks like Mercedes is really afraid to have this guy join Ferrari. This guy must have the know how to even the playing field and Merc is not open to having competitive racing in 2016 if they can help it.

"Mercedes-Benz AG is suing one of its Formula 1 engineers for taking confidential documents and data as he prepared to join competitor Ferrari.
Mercedes AMG High Performance Powertrains, which makes engines for the Mercedes Petronas team, is suing Benjamin Hoyle, according to an Oct. 19 filing released Monday. Hoyle, who intends to join Ferrari after his contract expires in December, searched for and saved files including a race report from the Hungary 2015 Grand Prix, mileage and damage data relating to Mercedes’ F-1 engines and files containing code required to decrypt raw race data files, the suit alleges.
The suit gives a rare glimpse into the inner workings of one of the world’s most secretive sports, where small technological advances can hold the keys to a winning season. Just four manufacturers -- Mercedes, Ferrari, Honda and Renault -- supply engines to the entire Formula 1 grid, at what autosport.com estimates is a cost of as much as 17 million pounds ($25.5 million) a team per season.
Hoyle’s "actions were calculated to destroy or seriously damage the relationship of trust" he has with Mercedes, the company said in the filing. "Mr. Hoyle and potentially Ferrari have gained an unlawful advantage."


Here is the important bit:

Mercedes is seeking the return of all documents and information, payment of its legal fees, and wants to block Hoyle from joining Ferrari or any other F-1 competitor until after the 2016 season.

Shameful tactics imo.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... to-ferrari

[myownalias]

If he stole the information, then he should be sued, as for blocking him from joining any other F1 team for 2016; I am reasonably sure that would not be enforceable under European law, I wonder if our legal eagle zurich_allan could comment on the legality of such a ruling.

[overboost]

They are just suing for legal fees and for him to forfeit his 2016 season. In other words they are using the threat of the high legal fees to coerce the guy into giving up his 2016 season.

As for the info who wouldn't expect an engine performance engineer to have engine performance info on his computer! It i just an IT policy infraction at best. The info is a race report from a 2015 mid season race and engine mileage and damage data. Hardly useful for 2016.

[sagi58]

Hardly a creative way to keep their advantage, eh?
Must be rerun season!!

[stonemonkey]

intends to join Ferrari after his contract expires in December, searched for and saved files including a race report from the Hungary 2015 Grand Prix, mileage and damage data relating to Mercedes’ F-1 engines and files containing code required to decrypt raw race data files, the suit alleges.

IT infraction at best......lmao in what world if the charges are true.

[overboost]

IP theft is against the law in this world! If Merc really had something here they would have just called the police, no fancy law suit required or legal costs incurred.

But of course they don't have much and the whole point is to mess with their engineers planned move to Ferrari so for that the law suit works much better!

[Bad Freddie]

IP theft is against the law in this world! If Merc really had something here they would have just called the police, no fancy law suit required or legal costs incurred.

But of course they don't have much and the whole point is to mess with their engineers planned move to Ferrari so for that the law suit works much better!

as usual you have a simplistic view

In the U.K where the suit is filed, certain aspects of IP theft are a civil matter not criminal, so the police would have told Mercedes to stop wasting their time.

From the Crown Prosecution Service

A design refers to the appearance of the whole or a part of a product resulting from the features of, in particular, the lines, contours, colours, shape, texture or materials of the product or its ornamentation.

There is no criminal offence under the legislation. Infringement of a registered or unregistered design raises potential civil law liability not criminal.

F1 parts and power units are not patented

However if Benjamin Hoyle spills his guts in court and implicates Ferrari, will we be seeing another $100m fine and exclusion from the season ?

[overboost]

Hi 'Bad Freddie',

So you are pointing out that design infringement is not a legal issue, you may or may not be correct, however infringement is not at issue in this action. It is the theft of the files/property which is the point of Mercedes accusations and theft is a crime.

If Merc has had files stolen then they just need to go to the cops and let them deal with it! Simple.

And a $100M fine! Don't be so dramatic. This is about a race report and mileage data on an outdated spec engine. That infamous situation over at McLaren Mercedes resulted in that fine due to the fact that they actually built and raced a car using 780 pages of Ferrari detailed engineering and coupled with Mercedes/Ron Dennis's initial denials/lies to the FIA. Remember this arrogant quote from Haug with Dennis standing by his side after their denials initially got them off with barely a slap on the wrist:

"Mercedes-Benz competition chief Norbert Haug also seemed unfazed by the prospect of his team facing another court test.
"Any appeal would have exactly the same result," he told German media. "I'm not worried. We're cleaner than clean.""

Merc was dirty back then and not much has changed from what I can see. They are determined to thwart competitive racing in 2016.

[myownalias]

As for the info who wouldn't expect an engine performance engineer to have engine performance info on his computer! It i just an IT policy infraction at best. The info is a race report from a 2015 mid season race and engine mileage and damage data. Hardly useful for 2016.

I would hope that any company with sensitive data would not be allowing any member of staff to have such information on their personal laptop. I would think that said company would provide a laptop for "work" use only which would have to be handed back upon termination of contract. IP theft is not a criminal issue, hence why one company is always suing another company for infringements of their intellectual property. If said personnel were to steal that laptop then it would be a criminal case and the police could take action.

[overboost]

Looks like this all happened at at the workplace when Hoyle was observed reading the race report on his laptop:

"Mercedes appears to have first discovered that there was an issue on September 23. On that day, he was apparently caught reading a report on the Hungarian GP, to which he should not have had access.

The court documents say: “Mr Hoyle opened on his laptop screen the Hungarian Grand Prix race report.

"When Mr Hoyle's former line manager, Owen Jones, approached Mr Hoyle's desk where the race report was visible on Mr Hoyle's laptop, Mr Hoyle disconnected the cable supplying power to the laptop, thereby shutting down the laptop. Mr Hoyle did this in an attempt to conceal his wrongdoing.”"

[stonemonkey]

One thing sounds fishy about that, disconnecting the power cable from a laptop doesn't usually shut it down.

[Bad Freddie]

Hardly a creative way to keep their advantage, eh?
Must be rerun season!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/35059767

In an exclusive interview with BBC Sport, Ecclestone also:

explained how he wants to change F1
detailed why he cannot get it through
accused Mercedes of helping Ferrari develop their engine

I can't believe Mercedes would stifle competition like that
Imagine getting $90m more than any other team and still needing help from a competitor to build an engine

maybe why Ferrari were so interested in getting a race report and mileage data

[stonemonkey]

Looks like this all happened at at the workplace when Hoyle was observed reading the race report on his laptop

Here's some more info that you missed out on OB

Meanwhile, more information about the case has emerged via Mercedes court documents. They confirm that Hoyle was transferred to DTM and road car duties in April and thereafter was not allowed physical or online access to the F1 department. He was also given a new company laptop, and a new email address, so that he wouldn't receive F1 data by mistake.

However, in September a senior colleague caught him reading a report about the Hungarian GP on his laptop. Court documents say: “Mr. Hoyle opened on his laptop screen the Hungarian Grand Prix race report. When Mr. Hoyle's former line manager, Owen Jones, approached Mr. Hoyle's desk where the race report was visible on Mr. Hoyle's laptop, Mr. Hoyle disconnected the cable supplying power to the laptop, thereby shutting down the laptop. Mr. Hoyle did this in an attempt to conceal his wrongdoing.”

[Bad Freddie]

So you are pointing out that design infringement is not a legal issue, you may or may not be correct, however infringement is not at issue in this action. It is the theft of the files/property which is the point of Mercedes accusations and theft is a crime.

If Merc has had files stolen then they just need to go to the cops and let them deal with it! Simple.

Companies and their employees should be aware that the person who has unlawfully taken the confidential information may be subject to both civil and criminal sanctions.
(it would become criminal if he had obtained personal data)

On the civil side, often the most effective remedy is to obtain an injunction (with or without giving notice to the individual responsible) to secure and recover the stolen confidential information and any evidence of its unlawful misuse.

This is the route Mercedes are going down, like I said if Benjamin Hoyle implicates Ferrari then legal precedent has been set
it matters not if Ron Dennis is a or not.

[myownalias]

This all sounds very dodgy on the part of Mercedes, the wording of the reports if accurate just don't add up, I have worked in IT for many years and it's not easy to access resources you do not have permissions for. It's not as simple as plugging an Ethernet cable into the laptop and having access, unless of course Mercedes had incredibly lax security guarding this sensitive data. And unless batteries are not allowed to be used onsite, then a laptop would not just shut off when power is disconnected.