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[What's Burning?]

Specifically putting this outside of the support thread, well because I've never been much of a supporter of the guy. The last four years have been discussed ad nauseam so no need to rehash there. What I'm looking at is the defending world champion's season to date.

He's looking mighty ordinary, after hearing for so long that he was arguably the best qualifier in the history of the sport, and that he has an innate skill that his previous teammate was unable to approach, I think a lot of what has been discussed and been said by those that questioned his run is being validated and then some.

If he doesn't turn this season around and is able to beat his team mate both on points and results he will have a sullied image in the history books. One thing to have an obvious disadvantage in the car, but another thing entirely to have a guy that had previously been in the junior team wipe the floor with your efforts. I think the media and fans have given him the respect he's entitled due to the stats he's put up, but what were previously only questions and doubts are no longer just questions and doubts, they're manifesting themselves pretty damned clearly. I believe his fans will be in the same position as climate change deniers, it will be harder and harder to argue the point if the trend continues.

[Ferrari man 009]

You only have to look at what Alonso has done in the Ferrari for the last few years, constantly outperforming the car and his team mates which is what great champions do. Vettel might have more WDC's than Alonso and Hamilton combined so far, but I don't think he is in the same class as then. In the first 2/3 races not adapting to a car with a lot less downforce may just about be a valid excuse, but after 8 races? He should be doing a LOT better.

[geetface9]

I agree with all that. I like ricciardo, though I really wish webber had stuck around for another year to see if the old boy could be the one laying down the hammer!! Anyway, back to vettel, I think he did a decent drive from a fair way back in the field in catalunya. Maybe we'll see more of the same tomorrow. Either way though, his teammate has come to terms with the car much quicker than he has. I've kinda had trouble deciding if he is just not that great or if eight races is still a reasonable time to have such issues after having the downforce on the rear that he has had for the last four years. Can you believe I just said that? but really, I think you're right WB, eight races...he should at least be getting into Q3 like his teammate

[Cyril Sneer Racing]

Interview here:
http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews ... 15974.html
"Well, it is no secret that the year so far wasn’t the smoothest for me. We had a lot of difficulties to overcome, but when you look at where we were in winter testing then we have made a fantastic step forward. Looking at the whole situation I have to say that he wasn’t giving me a harder time than I used to have with other team mates. Of course, if you look at the results it is correct to say that he has been in front most of the time - and in previous years I was in front of Mark [Webber] most of the time - but from that you cannot draw any conclusions as every race is a different story. There are always two sides of a story. He is doing a good job - I do not doubt that. He has had the ability to get the maximum out of the car since race one - and on my side, well, we had a couple of things to overcome, so it is good that the other half is doing well. "

Personally I think he's only had one good race, starting down in the field. Other than that Ricciardo has outperformed him almost every time.
It's hard not to discuss his past performance. Was his car not 2.5 seconds faster or more than the other cars in the field, and perhaps half a second faster than his teammate?
No doubt he is a good driver, but maybe he has issues with competitiveness and/or controlling the car. We see Raikkonen having trouble still with spinning, and years of extremely solid cars took a lot of skill out of the driving. Meaning Vettel's got three battles to wage: an underperforming car, his own temper over competition, and perhaps not enough skill for a demanding car.
But yes, that shows his titles were not years of character-building in my eyes.

[Roth]

Vettel apologists are working overtime. The lengths of their delusion is staggering. Partly I blame the internet, where the weight of uninformed kneejerk opinion on his great success spiralled out of control, feeding itself. Another is their general lack of F1 knowledge and how it works and how that success is achieved.

Now they've backed themselves into a corner and it's funny watching them wildly swing away in his defence.

It reminds me of MS comeback and all his old fans predicting further wild success from the rooftops, then nothing but excuses.

Vettel's success is like Hill or Villeneuve's - a good driver in an amazing car. He was just lucky enough not having Horner swap drivers out every year.

[Hammer278]

I'm waiting for mnmracer to appear showing some nearly reformed stats on how many times a 4x WDC has been outqualified/outperformed by an incoming newbie.

[What's Burning?]

He's been busy admiring Vettel's helmets.

[stonemonkey]

He's been busy admiring Vettel's helmets.

Vettel has diphallia?

[What's Burning?]

He's been busy admiring Vettel's helmets.

Vettel has diphallia?

Ewww... Why did I look.

[LRW]

He's been busy admiring Vettel's helmets.

Vettel has diphallia?

Ewww... Why did I look.

Ha ha ha. Why? Well, so that now, based on your reaction, I know I don't need to.

[geetface9]

I means the a guy was born with two penii. Or is it penises? Cacti, penii, ya follow?

[LewEngBridewell]

I'm waiting for mnmracer to appear showing some nearly reformed stats on how many times a 4x WDC has been outqualified/outperformed by an incoming newbie.

I'm very puzzled by Vettel's form this year. Yes, he's had a seriously good car in his championship winning years, and this 2014 challenger clearly isn't as good. I always recognised the potential in Ricciardo, even back in his HRT days. But Vettel simply looks out-of-his depth next to Daniel.

Where's the Vettel we saw winning the 2008 Italian Grand Prix with Toro Rosso? Or the new kid on the block who instantly impressed when replacing Kubica at BMW briefly in 2007? Seems like a distant memory.

[LiamCatterson]

Yeah, Vettel doesn't seem as impressive now. It's becoming a more memorable thing than his 4 Championships, with that being said, people were ready to switch off their TVs if this was to become a fifth...