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#354324
What happened to Felipe Massa late last year, only the Brazilian knows, but he seems to have regained his form, and since the United States Grand Prix in Austin, has been outqualifying Fernando Alonso. Although both drivers take it lightly, it is no doubt a boost of convidence for Felipe and topping the time sheets this morning, he seems to be on form to perhaps do what no other driver has yet done: outqualify Fernando Alonso as a team mate 5 consecutive times.

Let's have a look how today's champions and top drivers have faired in regards to being consecutively outqualified by their team mate.

Lewis Hamilton: outqualified 2 times in a row
Of the 'big three', Lewis has the best score in terms of (not) being consecutively outqualified by team mates. All his team mates up to this year -Fernando Alonso, Heikki Kovallainen and Jenson Button- have at some point outqualified Hamilton two races in a row, but never more.

Sebastian Vettel: outqualified 4 times in a row
The driver with the 3rd most amount of pole position in history, 4 races in a row, from the 2010 Spanish Grand Prix to the 2010 Canadian Grand Prix, qualifying specialist Mark Webber had his number in qualifying, but never more.

Fernando Alonso: outqualified 4 times in a row
Having had qualifying aces as Jarno Trulli and Lewis Hamilton as team mates, Fernando still has not been outqualified more than 4 races in a row. From the 2003 European Grand Prix to the 2003 German Grand Prix, Jarno Trulli had his number in qualifying, a feat equaled by Lewis Hamilton from the 2007 Canadian Grand Prix to the 2007 French Grand Prix, and now Felipe Massa, from the 2012 United States Grand Prix. Will this be different tomorrow?

Kimi Räikkönen: outqualified 4 & 5 times in a row
Having taken a 3 year sabbatical from Formula One, I decided to look at Kimi's score before and after his return.
In his first career, it was Felipe Massa who outqualified him 4 times in a row, from the 2008 Malaysian Grand Prix to the 2008 Monaco Grand Prix.
Returning to Formula One in 2012, team mate Romain Grosjean set a faster time on Saturday 5 times in a row: from the 2012 Bahrain Grand Prix to the 2012 European Grand Prix.

Mark Webber: outqualified 3 & 9 times in a row
Mark Webber's case in qualifying is a curious one. Known in the paddock as a qualifying ace, prior to 2009 he outqualified his team mates in 75% of all the races. In that time, no one has outqualified him more than 3 times in a row, which Christian Klien did from the 2004 Monaco Grand Prix to the 2004 Canadian Grand Prix.
When he teamed up with Sebastian Vettel, things quickly changed. In their 4 years as team mates, Sebastian Vettel has outqualified Mark Webber in 70% of the cases. Twice, from the 2010 Singapore Grand Prix to the 2011 Spanish Grand Prix, and from the 2011 Hungarian Grand Prix to the 2011 Brazilian Grand Prix, did Sebastian Vettel outqualify Mark Webber 9 times in a row. Even if you leave aside 2011, which some consider to be an off-year for Webber, Vettel was the front-starting Red Bull 8 times from the 2009 Australian Grand Prix to the 2009 British Grand Prix.

Jenson Button: outqualified 9 times in a row
Having had his qualifying duels evened out pretty well from 2003-2009, Lewis Hamilton took his number in qualifying in their times as team mates. From the 2012 Australian Grand Prix to th 2012 German Grand Prix, Lewis Hamilton was 9 times in a row the fastest McLaren on Saturday.

Felipe Massa: outqualified 12 & 21 times in a row
Many speculate the reasons of Felipe's severe two year performance dip, but he seems to be on his way back. In the context of this statistic, Felipe Massa is a curious case. On one hand, he was outqualified 21 times in a row by Fernando Alonso, from the 2011 Indian Grand Prix to the 2012 Abu Dhabu Grand Prix, and even before his dip, teaming up in 2006 with Michael Schumacher, he started behind his team-mate 12 consecutive times. Of all the drivers on the grid, no one has had more world championships in the next garage: 10 (7x Schumacher, 1x Räikkönen, 2x Alonso).
But on the flip-side, Felipe is responsible for having the number of both Räikkönen and (shared) Alonso most times consecutively. Will he take Alonso's number for his own this weekend?
#354336
Grat post mnmracer! :thumbup: really interesting facts in there!
#354338
mnmracer, credit where it's due. You'll be aware that I've criticised some of your posts in the past, but this makes for really interesting reading and points for dicussion. I've often thought it's strange that sometimes you can get a 'qualifying specialist' who often throws together phenomenal one lap pace, but then goes on to be beaten by a new team mate in qualifying.

Rosberg consistently outqualified whomever his team mate was at Williams at any given time. He then continued that trend at Mercedes with Schumacher. Yet Schumacher was a qualifying demon. Yet now Hamilton has come to the team and seems to have the upper hand in qualifying pace on Rosberg. The mind boggles...
#354339
......Rosberg consistently outqualified whomever his team mate was at Williams at any given time. He then continued that trend at Mercedes with Schumacher. Yet Schumacher was a qualifying demon. Yet now Hamilton has come to the team and seems to have the upper hand in qualifying pace on Rosberg. The mind boggles...


I think Rosberg might still have it you know. We've only had two (wet) qualies this season, and if I remember correctly Rosberg was held up on his flying lap in one of them, and it was a drying track situation in the other. Looking at practices sessions, I feel Nico has the edge over Lewis still, and I believe Lewis will be beaten by Nico this weekend in Qualification.
#354342
Agree, in qualifying so far Nico has had the upper hand but not produced it when it really mattered. As said earlier, I'd be surprised if Lewis outqualifies Nico in Shanghai.
#354343
......Rosberg consistently outqualified whomever his team mate was at Williams at any given time. He then continued that trend at Mercedes with Schumacher. Yet Schumacher was a qualifying demon. Yet now Hamilton has come to the team and seems to have the upper hand in qualifying pace on Rosberg. The mind boggles...


I think Rosberg might still have it you know. We've only had two (wet) qualies this season, and if I remember correctly Rosberg was held up on his flying lap in one of them, and it was a drying track situation in the other. Looking at practices sessions, I feel Nico has the edge over Lewis still, and I believe Lewis will be beaten by Nico this weekend in Qualification.


You could be right - and Nico will have confidence given his win here last year. But this is why this thread is great - it adds another dimension to keeping an eye on quali tomorrow.
#354350
It goes to show what a fantastic pairing Mercedes have in those two!!
#354357
Just did some extra stats. Really shows Rosberg's got some skill in qualifying.

Nico Rosberg outqualified his team-mates in 72% of all races; median season score: 78%
Sebastian Vettel outqualified his team-mates in 72% of all races; median season score: 77%.
Fernando Alonso outqualified his team-mates in 74% of all races; median season score: 74%.
Lewis Hamilton outqualified his team-mates in 72% of all races; median season score: 72%.
Mark Webber outqualified his team-mates in 53% of all races; median season score: 74%.
Kimi Räikkonen outqualified his team-mates in 60% of all races; median season score: 67%.
Jenson Button outqualified his team-mates in 43% of all races; median season score: 43%.
Felipe Massa outqualified his team-mates in 38% of all races; median season score: 35%.

The scores for the 'big team mate battles' over the last years (excl. 2013):
Alonso beat Massa in 82% of all races; median score of 79%.
Hamilton beat Button in 75% of all races; median score of 74%.
Vettel beat Webber in 72% of all races; median score of 74%.


*median means in the middle. It takes out extremes, and is the result in the dead center.
For instance, the average of 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+50 is 16.
The median of 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+50 is 4.5.

BTW: kind of funny how Jenson 'balance' Button's average and median scores are in perfect balance ^_^ (in detail: 42.8% and 43.3%)
#354377
BTW: kind of funny how Jenson 'balance' Button's average and median scores are in perfect balance ^_^ (in detail: 42.8% and 43.3%)


Excellent thread and good work with the number crunching. Button appears to be the perfect example of a consistent medium, average journeyman?

I wonder what Heidfelds readings are
#354403
BTW: kind of funny how Jenson 'balance' Button's average and median scores are in perfect balance ^_^ (in detail: 42.8% and 43.3%)


Excellent thread and good work with the number crunching. Button appears to be the perfect example of a consistent medium, average journeyman?

I wonder what Heidfelds readings are


Heidfeld would be really interesting! Outscored Robert Kubica at BMW Sauber in the three years they were team mates, yet from memory qualifying was a huge stumbling block for him...
#354506
Really interesting stats mnracer.

I'm surprised that Kimis numbers are that good, I've always considered him pretty average in quali, kind of a distance runner not a sprinter. And with the same I thought Massas stats would be better. But I guess Schumi years ruined his stats.

the other top guys, no real surprises, but a good reminder that Nico is a real challenger for Lewis not 2nd support driver.
#354564
Great thread :clap:

Interesting to see Massa couldnt quite get the 5 in a row from Alonso, and Lewis has now three in a row on Nico :)

great way to add a dimension to our Saturday mmracer :)

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