New type of engine design [Not to do with 2014 V6s]

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atommo
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New type of engine design [Not to do with 2014 V6s]

Postby atommo »

I had this idea about a new type of engine that might be a viable replacement to petrol engines if the theory of it works. I made a quick picture to show how it works: Image

If you want a stronger acceleration speed/more powerful engine, you can add more of the discs.
Image

This type of engine would probably be more similar to a petrol engine than an electric motor in terms of it spinning even when the car is stopped [Needing a clutch]. I have a feeling this would probably need less gears than a conventional petrol engine has to achieve high speeds. Questions/comments are welcome! Also hello again to some of you! [I joined around last August but haven't been active for a while]
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Re: New type of engine design [Not to do with 2014 V6s]

Postby What's Burning? »

I'm not sure what the advantage of it would be in that you're using electricity to generate the pulse? In fact even less efficient since it would have to remain spinning even when the car was stopped.
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Re: New type of engine design [Not to do with 2014 V6s]

Postby scotty »

Isn't this kind of how electric motors actually work in the first place though?
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Re: New type of engine design [Not to do with 2014 V6s]

Postby atommo »

What's Burning? wrote:In fact even less efficient since it would have to remain spinning even when the car was stopped.

It depends on how much power is needed to make the engine spin. I wouldn't feel the engine would be any less efficient than a petrol engine, and there could always be developments to improve the efficiency.

This is simply an idea to help move cars over from petrol to electricity. There are also some other advantages like less heat being produced since there isn't any internal combustion going on and that means there are no harmful gases being released.

scotty wrote:Isn't this kind of how electric motors actually work in the first place though?

This is slightly different. Electric motors work by producing a constant magnetic field to generate spin, while this concept uses pulses.
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Re: New type of engine design [Not to do with 2014 V6s]

Postby stonemonkey »

atommo wrote:This is slightly different. Electric motors work by producing a constant magnetic field to generate spin, while this concept uses pulses.


You kind of threw me with the electromagnetic pulses at first, but yep this is pretty much how electric motors work, even DC motors have AC going through the windings to switch the magnetic field or different windings are powered as they rotate. A constant magnetic field can't be used to generate continual turning otherwise you'd be able to achieve perpetual motion with permanent magnets.

How have you come to your conclusions about efficiency and torque?
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Re: New type of engine design [Not to do with 2014 V6s]

Postby 1Lemon »

I feel this would would have more problems in that you would have to contain this fairly strong (It would have to be if it were sending pulses) electro magnetic force, otherwise you couldn't make the engine bay out of metal and man-hole covers would stick to the chassis. I've been to CERN and seen the L.H.C and they have to have massive blocks of lead (I think they were lead) surrounding each of the magnets to stop metal sticking to the pipes (Ala Terminator). And they also had to be cooled, admittedly your idea wouldn't require liquid hydrogen to cool them but still.

However if you keep refining ideas like this... Well we need more people in the world who do this :thumbup:
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Re: New type of engine design [Not to do with 2014 V6s]

Postby What's Burning? »

I think the valid point here is that a pulse would use a lot less power than a steady field. It may not be as efficient for the reason I noted but since it is just like an electric motor there would be no issues with building it any differently than an electric motor.

IMO this wold have a benefit if you were using something other than electricity as a power source. Like very small scale atomic power to generate the timed pulse. Otherwise it feels like a solution looking for a problem.
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Re: New type of engine design [Not to do with 2014 V6s]

Postby atommo »

Thanks for the replies everyone! I haven't thought about specifics, this is simply a concept I've thought of for the moment.
stonemonkey wrote:
atommo wrote:This is slightly different. Electric motors work by producing a constant magnetic field to generate spin, while this concept uses pulses.


A constant magnetic field can't be used to generate continual turning otherwise you'd be able to achieve perpetual motion with permanent magnets.

How have you come to your conclusions about efficiency and torque?


I guess I'll have to research into how electric motors work a little more. However in terms of efficiency and torque, I wouldn't know much about the efficiency but the torque depends on how many plates are in the engine. I would imagine an engine with 3 plates in to have a little room for wheel spin [In a small car], since the pulses act like explosions in a combustion engine, so putting your foot down on the accelerator would increase the amount of pulses in a set amount of time. However, that is a guess and I don't know specifics about torque.

1Lemon wrote:I feel this would would have more problems in that you would have to contain this fairly strong (It would have to be if it were sending pulses) electro magnetic force, otherwise you couldn't make the engine bay out of metal and man-hole covers would stick to the chassis. I've been to CERN and seen the L.H.C and they have to have massive blocks of lead (I think they were lead) surrounding each of the magnets to stop metal sticking to the pipes (Ala Terminator). And they also had to be cooled, admittedly your idea wouldn't require liquid hydrogen to cool them but still.


I have a feeling the magnetic force produced wouldn't be enough to start pulling manholes out of the ground and you could always make the chassis out of aluminum or some other non-magnetic material. Also, if you were to have more plates, you could make each pulse less strong since there are more of them [Pulse inducers]. Also, you could put in some panels that convert heat to electricity to increase efficiency [A bit like KERS but with heat]

1Lemon wrote:However if you keep refining ideas like this... Well we need more people in the world who do this :thumbup:

Thankyou :D

What's Burning? wrote:I think the valid point here is that a pulse would use a lot less power than a steady field. It may not be as efficient for the reason I noted but since it is just like an electric motor there would be no issues with building it any differently than an electric motor.

IMO this wold have a benefit if you were using something other than electricity as a power source. Like very small scale atomic power to generate the timed pulse. Otherwise it feels like a solution looking for a problem.


The pulses would be dynamically controlled according to how much pressure you're putting on the accelerator, so a constant pulse wouldn't work. However, viable [renewable] alternative power sources could be considered.
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Re: New type of engine design [Not to do with 2014 V6s]

Postby stonemonkey »

atommo wrote:Thanks for the replies everyone! I haven't thought about specifics, this is simply a concept I've thought of for the moment.
stonemonkey wrote:
atommo wrote:This is slightly different. Electric motors work by producing a constant magnetic field to generate spin, while this concept uses pulses.


A constant magnetic field can't be used to generate continual turning otherwise you'd be able to achieve perpetual motion with permanent magnets.

How have you come to your conclusions about efficiency and torque?


I guess I'll have to research into how electric motors work a little more. However in terms of efficiency and torque, I wouldn't know much about the efficiency but the torque depends on how many plates are in the engine. I would imagine an engine with 3 plates in to have a little room for wheel spin [In a small car], since the pulses act like explosions in a combustion engine, so putting your foot down on the accelerator would increase the amount of pulses in a set amount of time. However, that is a guess and I don't know specifics about torque.


I don't think it would be just a matter of increasing the pulse frequency to increase the speed, the pulses would have to occur at the correct time as the rotor turns. It would be kind of like trying to speed up a combustion engine just by speeding up the timing of the spark. I think you'd have to increase the power going through the coils like increasing the amount of fuel as you put your foot down.
Have a look for dyson motors, they're something like what you're talking about.
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Re: New type of engine design [Not to do with 2014 V6s]

Postby What's Burning? »

^^ sounds a lot like spark plug timing. :hehe:
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Re: New type of engine design [Not to do with 2014 V6s]

Postby stonemonkey »

What's Burning? wrote:^^ sounds a lot like spark plug timing. :hehe:


Pretty much, if you''ve ever opened up a motor and at one end you see the ring of metal blocks that the brushes make contact with, think of them like the distributer points, instead of making a spark at the correct plug they pass the current through the correct coil in the right direction at the right time in the cycle.
In the case of the brushless motor the coils are stationary on the outside with some sort of controller providing the pulses to the coils for the correct timing.
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Re: New type of engine design [Not to do with 2014 V6s]

Postby atommo »

In terms of the timing of the pulses, I'm thinking of applying a magnetic sensor to detect the part of the plate that reacts to the pulses- when the sensor gets a certain reading, an internal computer system applies a pulse of a certain degree according to how much pressure is on the accelerator at the time.
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Re: New type of engine design [Not to do with 2014 V6s]

Postby stonemonkey »

A couple of questions:

What advantages will this have over the motors currently used in electric/hybrid vehicles?

can this be used for energy recovery?
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Re: New type of engine design [Not to do with 2014 V6s]

Postby atommo »

stonemonkey wrote:A couple of questions:
What advantages will this have over the motors currently used in electric/hybrid vehicles?


I'm not sure about any distinct advantages, but it is different from the current electric motors. It would probably feel more like a petrol car [you would probably feel more power since the engine reacts similarly to that of a combustion engine]. However, I feel that this type of engine would only need ~3 gears to get up to 70mph whilst a petrol car would take about 4-5, due to the pulse engine being able to cope with higher rpm without overheating whilst a petrol engine would struggle with so many explosions going on internally.

stonemonkey wrote:can this be used for energy recovery?


atommo wrote:Also, you could put in some panels that convert heat to electricity to increase efficiency [A bit like KERS but with heat]

However, I'm not quite sure if that's what you were meaning. If not, please specify.
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Re: New type of engine design [Not to do with 2014 V6s]

Postby stonemonkey »

With Kers, and I imagine with electric/hybrid cars the motor can also act as a generator to charge up the batteries.
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