Nose Aerodynamics

[Myk]

Hello,

Hoping some one out there can help me with this as i have no technical experience or insight what so-ever but i cant get my head round this......

As the new cars are being shown off, asthetically the big change between Mclaren and Ferrari is the lip on the nose which Mclaren have gone without. Aswell as Ferrari, the other teams that have released the new car have gone with the lip aswell?

Can someone tell me if Mclaren has missed a trick by not having the lip or have they outdoen the rest of the teams by engineering it without - also, what difference does it make on the downforce with/without it????

Much appreciated

[scotty]

The reason for the teams running the bump is so that they can run a slightly higher nose under the new regulations for 2012. Basically this bump ultimately gives a nose design that allows more air into that area of the car which can then be distributed as necessary, usually around to the diffuser at the rear of the car. McLaren obviously don't feel this is necessary for them to be able to create the levels of downforce they are after. Modern aerodynamics isn't about one single large part, it's about lots of small ones linked together and most importantly how they are linked together to complement each other.

So at this stage it isn't possible to say an approach is right or wrong, just a different philosophy of creating downforce on the car. Obviously we'll see any difference (if any) in performance on track...

[bud]

Having the raised nose or clean nose won't play any role in performance in my opinion. As Scotty said its about the car as a whole.

Have a read here.
http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2012/01/2 ... nd-trends/

[Myk]

Scotty / Bud,

Thanks for the replies, greatly appreciated.

I understand that it all depends on how the rest of the car is set up along with the nose which will affect the downforce but what im trying to understand is why the completley different approaches and what is the benefit of each compared to the other if we were just looking at the nose design in itself??

I know its early days (2 days at max since the cars were released!!) and we will see once the season starts just what intrigues me is that Mclaren have said they have concentrated on the 1 lap speed in order to try and compete with Vettel in qualifying. Wwill be interesting what the new Red Bull looks like on Monday.

Regards

Myk

[bud]

Every constructor has different interpretations on various regulations. How it all works together as Scotty said is what counts.
Comparing one part of one teams car to another's and asking which one works better is irrelevant when you have to take into account every other component of the car too and how it is designed and integrated into the car.

In the end whether there is a bump or no bump is irrelevant. Its like saying why is Coca Cola's logo different to Pepsi Cola's.

From watching McLaren's launch stream they never said they concentrated on qualifying, they said they noted how Vettel won races, i.e. getting Pole then pulling a gap until DRS was activated. But they also said they know you win on Sundays and the race pace was important too.

[What's Burning?]

Scotty / Bud,

Thanks for the replies, greatly appreciated.

I understand that it all depends on how the rest of the car is set up along with the nose which will affect the downforce but what im trying to understand is why the completley different approaches and what is the benefit of each compared to the other if we were just looking at the nose design in itself??

I know its early days (2 days at max since the cars were released!!) and we will see once the season starts just what intrigues me is that Mclaren have said they have concentrated on the 1 lap speed in order to try and compete with Vettel in qualifying. Wwill be interesting what the new Red Bull looks like on Monday.

Regards

Myk

Hey Myk, welcome to our forum. The non technical answer to your question is simply that it's a different design phylosophy made because other parts of the car are also different. Why do a leopard and a cheetah and a lion look different even though they all hunt gazelle in the Serengeti.

In the case of McLaren they didn't need to do their nose in that stepped fashion because their cars are already lower than most in the front and they're lower than most in the front because the didn't need to funnel the same amount of air from that area in order to make their car work.

[scotty]

Scotty / Bud,

Thanks for the replies, greatly appreciated.

I understand that it all depends on how the rest of the car is set up along with the nose which will affect the downforce but what im trying to understand is why the completley different approaches and what is the benefit of each compared to the other if we were just looking at the nose design in itself??

If you were to look at just the nose itself, completely ignoring ALL other parts of the car, and you put that nose in the windtunnel, you would probably see the bumps exert a small amount of extra downforce, while the conventional nose would probably have less drag. Is that what you were asking?

However, it is important not to get bogged down considering the aero effect of the nose alone, you have to concentrate on its knock on effect of aero elsewhere on the car.

[bigpat]

Mike Gascoyne always said the visual impact of dramatic F1 noses usually far outweighs the performance impact......

Some teams believe their cars performance is best served by increasing the volume of air flowing under the nose, to the parts further aft.
McLaren may have seen that the "snow plough" beneath the nose gives them the result they want.

I think it has a lot to do with which one you chose as a starting point. You then tend to develop down that path in an aerodynamic sense.....

Mechanically, I see the lower front end of the McLaren bring the benefits of a lower centre of gravity, always a fundamental advantage.....

[What's Burning?]

With the pronounced rake in McLaren's MP4-27 I'm thinking that The Red Bull RB8 will also be sporting a curved, not stepped nose.

[bud]

With the pronounced rake in McLaren's MP4-27 I'm thinking that The Red Bull RB8 will also be sporting a curved, not stepped nose.

ba bow.

[What's Burning?]

With the pronounced rake in McLaren's MP4-27 I'm thinking that The Red Bull RB8 will also be sporting a curved, not stepped nose.

ba bow.

I took a shot, but leave it to Newey to make ugly the new chic.

[andrew]

With the pronounced rake in McLaren's MP4-27 I'm thinking that The Red Bull RB8 will also be sporting a curved, not stepped nose.

No curved noses for Red Bull, no Sir! They too have a bump.

[scotty]

With the pronounced rake in McLaren's MP4-27 I'm thinking that The Red Bull RB8 will also be sporting a curved, not stepped nose.

No curved noses for Red Bull, no Sir! They too have a bump.

And some sort of air inlet there, interesting

[bud]

With the pronounced rake in McLaren's MP4-27 I'm thinking that The Red Bull RB8 will also be sporting a curved, not stepped nose.

No curved noses for Red Bull, no Sir! They too have a bump.

And some sort of air inlet there, interesting

Thats what I first thought, but Its not. i adjusted the photos in photoshop to get a better look it doesn't appear to be any opening.

2.jpg

[What's Burning?]

something's fishy... that would create nothing but a tremendous amount of drag or at the very least a huge disruption in airflow over the top of the car! fishy, or revolutionary.