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[darwin dali]

With the back and forth around the EBD issue demonstrating a striking weakness of the FIA (compared to MM's brute force style before), the question at least in my mind arises: how much power does Red Bull hold these days in F1?
It looks like they outmuscled McLaren lately. After all, an unhappy Mateschitz could easily withdraw two teams (the defending champion among them) on short notice and bring the total number below the contractual (?) 10 teams on the grid.
And Ferrari? They appear to just sit back and enjoy the show between RB and McLaren, while feverishly working on becoming a winning team again.
The big elephant in the room, however, for me is Mercedes with their engines and now their own team as well.
With Williams in its sad state for years now and despite all the old glory and tradition of Ferrari and McLaren, could we see a power shift towards Red Bull/Renault on the one side and Mercedes on the other? What happens to the power balance if/when McLaren stop using Mercedes engines? Will the cards get reshuffled with the new engine regs from 2014 on? Or on the contrary, could 2014 see Renault (and by proxy Red Bull) with their small engine and turbo experience become even more influential?

Just some food for thought...

[myownalias]

I wouldn't say the Red Bull brand is that strong in F1; sure Mateschitz could pull two teams from F1 but Red Bull have some way to go to gain a following like McLaren and Ferrari; it's the following that makes teams powerful; if Ferrari and/or McLaren were to exit F1; a large fan base will leave with them. I can't imagine that Red Bull have that big fan base after just seven years in the sport. Sadly I think that Jean Todt lacks the strength to run such a large organisation as the FIA; he seems to be very willing to defer to the teams!

[What's Burning?]

Only as powerful as AN and team stay there designing winning cars.

[vaptin]

Redbull haven't been at the top for long enough yet, McLaren and Ferrari have historical attachment, it'll be perceived as a bigger blow if one of those guys pull out, people associate f1 with Ferrari and McLaren.

I think for Redbull the fans of f1, will be happy enough to watch whoever takes their place.

But Redbull would lose a lot of its marketing appeal.

[Hammer278]

Err Redbull are massively into sports. F1 is just a small piece of the pie in their marketing gimmicks, I believe the RB Air Show and Speedboat takes precedence. F1 is crucial of course, but I dont believe their market share will decrease if they do pull out of F1.

[vaptin]

Err Redbull are massively into sports. F1 is just a small piece of the pie in their marketing gimmicks, I believe the RB Air Show and Speedboat takes precedence. F1 is crucial of course, but I dont believe their market share will decrease if they do pull out of F1.

Than how can f1 be crucial if their market share won't decrease?

Redbull are in f1 for marketing, their obviously making massive gains with that now Vettel is WDC. It's a massive investment, so clearly a big part of their brand image.

The power of advertising through a winning f1 team is huge, Ferrari don't even advertise.

[Hammer278]

Crucial is the wrong word for it, more like useful. I just like the word 'crucial' very much, my apologies.

RB were doing very well even before entering F1, their market penetration is akin to Starbucks and McDonalds though all different styles of course. Yes, advertizing a winning car is huge, but if they leave F1 I dont think people are suddenly going to stop buying Redbull cans. RB has a huge market in USA, their market penetration strategies there has little to do with F1.

[vaptin]

Crucial is the wrong word for it, more like useful. I just like the word 'crucial' very much, my apologies.

RB were doing very well even before entering F1, their market penetration is akin to Starbucks and McDonalds though all different styles of course. Yes, advertizing a winning car is huge, but if they leave F1 I dont think people are suddenly going to stop buying Redbull cans. RB has a huge market in USA, their market penetration strategies there has little to do with F1.

Redbull in f1 is probably about convincing even more people to buy Redbull (what I called marketing appeal). And I'm guessing those profits (plus the prize money and secondary sponsorships for the f1 teams) outweigh the costs of running two f1 teams.

So there is a fair bit of money in it for Redbull. It's about pushing their brand image, it won't suddenly stop, but all these factors add up (the air race, mountain biking, tv adverts, the racing team), as long as the Redbull racing teams are doing their job, Redbull would hate to pull out of f1.

[Jabberwocky]

Does Red Bull really need to advertise. How many people just say Red Bull when they mean energy drink?

It is like if someone says do you want a coke, you think it is a coke cola.
Is it a Hoover or a vacuum cleaner? Or a Xerox or a photocopier.

If you buy a PC what operating system has it got?

[darwin dali]

Does Red Bull really need to advertise. How many people just say Red Bull when they mean energy drink?

It is like if someone says do you want a coke, you think it is a coke cola.
Is it a Hoover or a vacuum cleaner? Or a Xerox or a photocopier.

If you buy a PC what operating system has it got?

Or hand me a Kleenex please.

[geetface9]

Does Red Bull really need to advertise. How many people just say Red Bull when they mean energy drink?

It is like if someone says do you want a coke, you think it is a coke cola.
Is it a Hoover or a vacuum cleaner? Or a Xerox or a photocopier.

If you buy a PC what operating system has it got?

Good point, although I think they'll still need to keep advertising for at least a few more years to be on those levels. Monster was the biggest drink on the west coast until just a few years ago. Red Bull was the new kid on the block when I started college five years ago; it was all about monster at that time.

I think by the time i have kids and they grow up though red bull may be on that level

[What's Burning?]

I think the intent of the OP was to discuss their dominance in F1, not the soft drink world. The team could completely pull out of the sport and just plaster their logo on the best team's car if advertising was only what they were after.

[bud]

Ferrari sitting back? They and Sauber (funnily enough a Ferrari subordinate for their entire F1 tenure minus the BMW days) were the teams that didn't come to an initial agreement on the EBD, so for your accusations that McLaren are up front pitted against RedBull in the politics seems rather odd considering for this, McLaren and RedBull both voted the same way.