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[sagi58]

Would your students be impressed with your mature and 'unusual' debating technique?

Probably about as impressed as they'd be with your penchant to repeat yourself!

(( thanks for setting that one up for me!! ))

[CookinFlat6]

Would your students be impressed with your mature and 'unusual' debating technique?

Probably about as impressed as they'd be with your penchant to repeat yourself!

(( thanks for setting that one up for me!! ))

Same message, different context

While we are discussing F1 and not the ability to discuss it, perhaps you could put forward your own opinion to the following mystery:

Why have Ferrari not previously entered LPM1 manufacturers? And why talking about a flanking manouevre into it right now?

[spankyham]

Personally I think this isn't just talk. Ferrari are looking seriously at a deeper effort and commitment to a return to the top category of LM racing.

Much as I think it would be a good move to get rid of SD, I don't think Ferrari would move into LMP1 to achieve that.

Reasons I believe Ferrari might move to LMP1:-
1) LMP1 it is more akin to the environment Ferrari wants to race in. No caps or limits and none being talked about. More open in terms of pure technology development capabilities.
2) The new ACO regulations suit Ferrari
3) it has a great presence in Europe but also the US and Asia
4) Corse Cliente have had great success in the GT classes
5) F1 is being driven towards production car manufacturers - Ferrari isn't one of those
6) F1 is becoming very restrictive and prescriptive - its getting harder and harder to differentiate teams and cars
7) In a prescriptive competition Ferrari cars are raced by CC, and with an effective budget cap, Ferrari could easily leave F1 to CC
8.) Ferrari would not fear the task ahead of them in LMP1. The team is used to working through tough times to become a winning unit. Any move into LMP1 would have a 5 year plan laid out from day 1

[CookinFlat6]

Reasons I believe Ferrari might move to LMP1:-

1) LMP1 it is more akin to the environment Ferrari wants to race in. No caps or limits and none being talked about. More open in terms of pure technology development capabilities.

pure technoloy development capability has not been a priority for Ferrari traditionally, whats changed now? they didnt want smaller displacement engines, want turbos, didnt want sims, didnt want hybrid/electric cars. They will be first to admit that they are not first to embrace new tech. Porsche and Audi have been doing new tech for fun for ever

2) The new ACO regulations suit Ferrari

Then why are they not already starting in 2014?

3) it has a great presence in Europe but also the US and Asia

Fair enough, Ferrari is already one of the top global brands, thats not an area they need to throw big money at, if anything a lack of achievement could work against them

4) Corse Cliente have had great success in the GT classes

They have, but the GT classes are not prototypes, worlds apart in terms of management and competition. Also the CC managing F1 would take away from the gheritage of the Ferrari F1 operation. Enzo started selling cars to pay for racing, he would not be too happy about the customer side running F1

5) F1 is being driven towards production car manufacturers - Ferrari isn't one of those

Good point, but we are back to the sense in competing in 2 top series at the same time, possibly struggling in both. Maybe LMP1 is better for companies like McLaren and ferrari, leave F1 to the Mercs and Renaults. Cant see Ferrari leaving F1 though.

6) F1 is becoming very restrictive and prescriptive - its getting harder and harder to differentiate teams and cars

Very true

7) In a prescriptive competition Ferrari cars are raced by CC, and with an effective budget cap, Ferrari could easily leave F1 to CC

See above about Ferrari F1 heritage

8.) Ferrari would not fear the task ahead of them in LMP1. The team is used to working through tough times to become a winning unit. Any move into LMP1 would have a 5 year plan laid out from day 1

Fair enough, but it would mean not winning in 2 expensive series simultaneously, resources will have to be stretched and diluted

[spankyham]

Good comments mate, and well put

I think the "pure technology" that suits Ferrari is more the non-prescriptive stuff that has no need to be relevant to road cars. Technology for the sake of technology. Your examples are indeed new technologies but oriented to road car applications and very prescriptive. I think that is the distinction and Ferrari can see the "writing on the wall" as far as F1 is concerned.

Why aren't they starting in 2014? Well in fact they are partially in the prototypes in 2014. I guess it will be more of a gradual transition. If things keep going the way they are heading, 2016 may be the time.

Would "not winning" the grand titles be a bad thing for Ferrari? I think Ferrari will get everything they need commercially by being competitive, winning races and being a strong competitor. I'm sure they can achieve that.

CC running F1? Well, Enzo himself did exactly that in the past, so there is certainly precedent for it.

I'm not suggesting Ferrari would leave F1, so the heritage aspect would stay intact. But given the budget cap is tight enough and the rules restrictive enough, there would be no need for them to stay directly involved. If F1 does indeed become a budget limited, production car oriented, European Indycar competition Ferrari would have no problems in leaving the racing there to CC.

[sagi58]

... perhaps you could put forward your own opinion to the following mystery:

Why have Ferrari not previously entered LPM1 manufacturers? And why talking about a flanking manouevre into it right now?

I don't have enough knowledge/understanding of the different racing series; but, I do have one hope.
And, that would be that Jabberwocky is right, that it will be an opportunity for Domenicali to leave
his current Team Principal position, in the VERY near future.

To be honest, I do hope that works out for him, just as I was hoping that Massa would take on another
role within the Ferrari organization. It's too bad that Massa seems to feel the need to prove himself
as a No.#1 driver and although I do wish him well, I don't see him as possessing the strengths to do it!

[CookinFlat6]

CC running F1? Well, Enzo himself did exactly that in the past, so there is certainly precedent for it.

I'm not suggesting Ferrari would leave F1, so the heritage aspect would stay intact. But given the budget cap is tight enough and the rules restrictive enough, there would be no need for them to stay directly involved. If F1 does indeed become a budget limited, production car oriented, European Indycar competition Ferrari would have no problems in leaving the racing there to CC.

I am thinking that CC running F1 would work like it has done with GT IF F1 turns to customer cars, and Ferrari have another team like the no relation Ferrari AF doing well, but I maintain that full involvement in both of the top series in the world is a recipe for getting ones arse kicked twice in parallel. It would be a big risk for little reward for Ferrari, and without customer cars CC would be in charge of Ferraris illustrious F1 heritage

[spankyham]

I am thinking that CC running F1 would work like it has done with GT IF F1 turns to customer cars, and Ferrari have another team like the no relation Ferrari AF doing well, but I maintain that full involvement in both of the top series in the world is a recipe for getting ones arse kicked twice in parallel. It would be a big risk for little reward for Ferrari, and without customer cars CC would be in charge of Ferraris illustrious F1 heritage

Interestingly, you are in accord with Luca on this. I think his words were something like "we can only be in one or the other" (LMP1 or F1). But budget caps are already agreed for F1 and, if those caps come in at levels suited to the Caterhams and Saubers say, then for sure a CC team would, with Ferrari equipment, be able to put together a competitive team. Remember we only get one season of engine tweeks (with a view to equalize them), then the engine will again be frozen. A restrictive enough budget will be a key element to allowing Ferrari to hand over F1 to a CC team.

[spankyham]

In a break with recent tradition, Ferrari will present their car at Jerez just before testing begins. Given that testing starts in January this year, it really does leave no time to arrange to normal Maranello unveiling. It is also reported that Nando, Kimi, Perdro and Marc Gene will give a press conference the day before.

A note, this is reported in the Spanish press on their equivalent day to April Fool's day.

[operaman]

... perhaps you could put forward your own opinion to the following mystery:

Why have Ferrari not previously entered LPM1 manufacturers? And why talking about a flanking manouevre into it right now?

I don't have enough knowledge/understanding of the different racing series; but, I do have one hope.
And, that would be that Jabberwocky is right, that it will be an opportunity for Domenicali to leave
his current Team Principal position, in the VERY near future.

To be honest, I do hope that works out for him, just as I was hoping that Massa would take on another
role within the Ferrari organization. It's too bad that Massa seems to feel the need to prove himself
as a No.#1 driver and although I do wish him well, I don't see him as possessing the strengths to do it!

Unlike some Ferrari fans, I actually like Stefano and don't see him as the problem at the Scuderia. I would not be at all surprised to see the team have a bounce back year in 2014.

I too expected Felipe to stay with Ferrari, perhaps as part of the effort in sports car racing. I think the move to Williams had more to do with ego than anything else, and it may not prove to be in his best interests long term.

[spankyham]

Anyone got any recent news on the Russian LMP2 team (think they are based in Spain) that is using Ferrari engines and aeros?

[Jabberwocky]

Anyone got any recent news on the Russian LMP2 team (think they are based in Spain) that is using Ferrari engines and aeros?

Are they called HRT

Sent using NCC-1701

[spankyham]

Anyone got any recent news on the Russian LMP2 team (think they are based in Spain) that is using Ferrari engines and aeros?

Are they called HRT

Sent using NCC-1701

I believe they were based in Spain

[sagi58]

Unlike some Ferrari fans, I actually like Stefano and don't see him as the problem at the Scuderia. I would not be at all surprised to see the team have a bounce back year in 2014.

I too expected Felipe to stay with Ferrari, perhaps as part of the effort in sports car racing. I think the move to Williams had more to do with ego than anything else, and it may not prove to be in his best interests long term.

I hope I haven't made it sound like I don't like Domenicali!! I just don't think he's the strongest person for the job!!
That doesn't mean he is ""the"" problem, as I've stated, it's not about "one" person or "one" thing!!

Agree on all points regarding Massa!!

[spankyham]

Very interesting news confirming that FIAT will indeed complete its acquisition of Chrysler. But how it has been achieved, and the bargain price FIAT CEO Sergio Marchionne has acquired it for whilst also paying out the workers retirement fund and gaining critical union concessions makes this a brilliant deal.

Not too long ago Ferrari was to be sold to finance the deal, now FIAT have kept the incredibly profitable Ferrari and acquired all of Chrysler for way less than the 5.5Bil it was expected to achieve. What's more most of the purchase price is being paid by Chrysler anyway. FIAT can now access the 11Bil in cash Chrysler had to improve global production - which will probably include a global revamped Alfa

A lot of work to be done, and Europe is still look sick, but this is a great step forward for Ferrari's owners IMO.

 wrote:">Fiat to buy full control of Chrysler

U.S. automaker Chrysler will become fully owned by Italy's Fiat under terms of an agreement announced Wednesday that also involves the United Auto Workers union.

The agreement comes more than 4-1/2 years after the Obama administration brought Fiat in to keep Chrysler in business as part of a packaged bankruptcy proceeding.

In a statement, Fiat said it has agreed to pay $3.65 billion for the 41.46% of Chrysler it doesn't already own from the UAW's medical benefits trust for retirees.

In addition to the deal, Chrysler will contribute $700 million to the benefits trust over a 4-year period. For its part, the UAW has agreed to support the automaker's plans to roll out vehicles and will drop a Delaware court proceeding over options exercised by Fiat in the acquisition of Chrysler.

"The unified ownership structure will now allow us to fully execute our vision of creating a global automaker that is truly unique in terms of mix of experience, perspective and know-how, a solid and open organization that will ensure all employees a challenging and rewarding environment," said Sergio Marchionne, CEO of both Fiat and Chrysler.

The full takeover of Chrysler by Fiat could be a step toward an initial public offering of Chrysler stock, which is expected in the first three months of 2014.

According to a filing in November, Chrysler will list its shares on the New York Stock Exchange under the symbol "CGC."

Chrysler has enjoyed great success under Fiat's ownership. It returned to profitability in 2011 and has been steadily improving sales and market share. Final 2013 sales figures are expected to show the company sold 2.6 million vehicles worldwide, up about 18% from 2012 and more than 70% from 2010, its first full year under Fiat's control.

The U.S. government also held a stake in Chrysler at the time it emerged from bankruptcy as compensation for the federal bailout the automaker received. But Treasury sold those shares back to Chrysler at a loss in 2011.