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[F1er]

They are both young drivers with a will to win at any cost yet then again they are only human and make mistakes. With time and experience I see greater things happening for both, it will be very exciting to watch .

Perhaps, i personally dont see Vettel in the same calibre, would go into it but i risk total derailment of the thread. I also dont see Vettel ever improving racecraft significantly and i dont see Hamilton ever completing a year without making at least one controversial mistake. Or Alonso waving that self righteous fist to someone etc. If someone could post me the percentage of Vettels wins from pole youd see what i mean. So in a nutshell unless Vettels car is quite a lot better then the next Ferrari or Mclaren, hes a one timer.

i think its fair to say its almost impossible to have a ''mistake-free'' year, but with time and experience, those mistakes can be minimised

i dont remember Button putting a foot wrong this past year?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6O1f6J4iW8

[nish2280]

They are both young drivers with a will to win at any cost yet then again they are only human and make mistakes. With time and experience I see greater things happening for both, it will be very exciting to watch .

Perhaps, i personally dont see Vettel in the same calibre, would go into it but i risk total derailment of the thread. I also dont see Vettel ever improving racecraft significantly and i dont see Hamilton ever completing a year without making at least one controversial mistake. Or Alonso waving that self righteous fist to someone etc. If someone could post me the percentage of Vettels wins from pole youd see what i mean. So in a nutshell unless Vettels car is quite a lot better then the next Ferrari or Mclaren, hes a one timer.

i think its fair to say its almost impossible to have a ''mistake-free'' year, but with time and experience, those mistakes can be minimised

i dont remember Button putting a foot wrong this past year?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6O1f6J4iW8

He just wanted to know if that part of the track had changed since he went past it a few seconds ago.

[Hammer278]

It's pretty easy to put 90% effort and make sure you finish every race with the car and tyres looking pretty. But that's also the reason why you lose the chance of being WDC a few races before the end, instead of the teammate who pushes it 110% and makes a couple of mistakes but still has a tiny shot in the last race. (No names mentioned)

In regards to Vettel, he's got sublime speed. We saw some racecraft in Silverstone where he overtook cars left and right. Yes, the car was much stronger than the opposition he was overtaking, but apart from Lewis, how many overtakes do we see between cars in near-equal capability? McLaren-Ferrari-Redbull...not much.

Vettel is definitely a contender for many more WDCs, and he's only going to get better as time goes on, just like Lewis. These two haven't been in F1 very long, unlike their teammates who've been in the game for a decade or more.

[Robert12010]

It's pretty easy to put 90% effort and make sure you finish every race with the car and tyres looking pretty. But that's also the reason why you lose the chance of being WDC a few races before the end, instead of the teammate who pushes it 110% and makes a couple of mistakes but still has a tiny shot in the last race. (No names mentioned)

In regards to Vettel, he's got sublime speed. We saw some racecraft in Silverstone where he overtook cars left and right. Yes, the car was much stronger than the opposition he was overtaking, but apart from Lewis, how many overtakes do we see between cars in near-equal capability? McLaren-Ferrari-Redbull...not much.

Vettel is definitely a contender for many more WDCs, and he's only going to get better as time goes on, just like Lewis. These two haven't been in F1 very long, unlike their teammates who've been in the game for a decade or more.

[FRAFPDD]

It's pretty easy to put 90% effort and make sure you finish every race with the car and tyres looking pretty. But that's also the reason why you lose the chance of being WDC a few races before the end, instead of the teammate who pushes it 110% and makes a couple of mistakes but still has a tiny shot in the last race. (No names mentioned)

In regards to Vettel, he's got sublime speed. We saw some racecraft in Silverstone where he overtook cars left and right. Yes, the car was much stronger than the opposition he was overtaking, but apart from Lewis, how many overtakes do we see between cars in near-equal capability? McLaren-Ferrari-Redbull...not much.

Vettel is definitely a contender for many more WDCs, and he's only going to get better as time goes on, just like Lewis. These two haven't been in F1 very long, unlike their teammates who've been in the game for a decade or more.

hmm,
i just cant agree, remember how long it took him to work his way back up
the field in silcerstone, embaressingly long. this myth about he's still young, like i said alonso
and hamilton are clearly better, and like i said, unless his car is the top car, even
if only by a bit, i dont think he'll win again, dont understand the blistering speed part either, his onboard laps have never looked any different then anyone elses and he
was beaten to pole at none other then the ultimate driver track by webber. if anything hamilton having only one
title in going on 5 years in 2011 shows how hars the beat have it. vettels got a lot of work to do considering hes pretty much as crash prone as
lewis and his overtaking skill is absolutely dire, dire.....

[nish2280]

It's pretty easy to put 90% effort and make sure you finish every race with the car and tyres looking pretty. But that's also the reason why you lose the chance of being WDC a few races before the end, instead of the teammate who pushes it 110% and makes a couple of mistakes but still has a tiny shot in the last race. (No names mentioned)

In regards to Vettel, he's got sublime speed. We saw some racecraft in Silverstone where he overtook cars left and right. Yes, the car was much stronger than the opposition he was overtaking, but apart from Lewis, how many overtakes do we see between cars in near-equal capability? McLaren-Ferrari-Redbull...not much.

Vettel is definitely a contender for many more WDCs, and he's only going to get better as time goes on, just like Lewis. These two haven't been in F1 very long, unlike their teammates who've been in the game for a decade or more.

hmm,
i just cant agree, remember how long it took him to work his way back up
the field in silcerstone, embaressingly long. this myth about he's still young, like i said alonso
and hamilton are clearly better, and like i said, unless his car is the top car, even
if only by a bit, i dont think he'll win again, dont understand the blistering speed part either, his onboard laps have never looked any different then anyone elses and he
was beaten to pole at none other then the ultimate driver track by webber. if anything hamilton having only one
title in going on 5 years in 2011 shows how hars the beat have it. vettels got a lot of work to do considering hes pretty much as crash prone as
lewis and his overtaking skill is absolutely dire, dire.....

Alonso beat Hamilton at the "Ultimate driver's track"... does that mean Alonso is better than Hamilton?

[FRAFPDD]

It's pretty easy to put 90% effort and make sure you finish every race with the car and tyres looking pretty. But that's also the reason why you lose the chance of being WDC a few races before the end, instead of the teammate who pushes it 110% and makes a couple of mistakes but still has a tiny shot in the last race. (No names mentioned)

In regards to Vettel, he's got sublime speed. We saw some racecraft in Silverstone where he overtook cars left and right. Yes, the car was much stronger than the opposition he was overtaking, but apart from Lewis, how many overtakes do we see between cars in near-equal capability? McLaren-Ferrari-Redbull...not much.

Vettel is definitely a contender for many more WDCs, and he's only going to get better as time goes on, just like Lewis. These two haven't been in F1 very long, unlike their teammates who've been in the game for a decade or more.

hmm,
i just cant agree, remember how long it took him to work his way back up
the field in silcerstone, embaressingly long. this myth about he's still young, like i said alonso
and hamilton are clearly better, and like i said, unless his car is the top car, even
if only by a bit, i dont think he'll win again, dont understand the blistering speed part either, his onboard laps have never looked any different then anyone elses and he
was beaten to pole at none other then the ultimate driver track by webber. if anything hamilton having only one
title in going on 5 years in 2011 shows how hars the beat have it. vettels got a lot of work to do considering hes pretty
much as crash prone as
lewis and his overtaking skill is absolutely dire, dire.....

Alonso beat Hamilton at the "Ultimate driver's track"... does that mean Alonso is better than Hamilton?

i didnt imply in any way shape or form that hes a worse driver then webber?

i said that given considering
everyone labels him blisteringly quick, being beaten by a teammate that
general opinion labels as an average-good driver at a track that a drivers ability counts more then any other, doesnt suggest so. please read what i say before
going for the obvious throat and making an alonso>hamilton reference to a hamilton
fan. especially when its irrelevant.

[nish2280]

It's pretty easy to put 90% effort and make sure you finish every race with the car and tyres looking pretty. But that's also the reason why you lose the chance of being WDC a few races before the end, instead of the teammate who pushes it 110% and makes a couple of mistakes but still has a tiny shot in the last race. (No names mentioned)

In regards to Vettel, he's got sublime speed. We saw some racecraft in Silverstone where he overtook cars left and right. Yes, the car was much stronger than the opposition he was overtaking, but apart from Lewis, how many overtakes do we see between cars in near-equal capability? McLaren-Ferrari-Redbull...not much.

Vettel is definitely a contender for many more WDCs, and he's only going to get better as time goes on, just like Lewis. These two haven't been in F1 very long, unlike their teammates who've been in the game for a decade or more.

hmm,
i just cant agree, remember how long it took him to work his way back up
the field in silcerstone, embaressingly long. this myth about he's still young, like i said alonso
and hamilton are clearly better, and like i said, unless his car is the top car, even
if only by a bit, i dont think he'll win again, dont understand the blistering speed part either, his onboard laps have never looked any different then anyone elses and he
was beaten to pole at none other then the ultimate driver track by webber. if anything hamilton having only one
title in going on 5 years in 2011 shows how hars the beat have it. vettels got a lot of work to do considering hes pretty
much as crash prone as
lewis and his overtaking skill is absolutely dire, dire.....

Alonso beat Hamilton at the "Ultimate driver's track"... does that mean Alonso is better than Hamilton?

i didnt imply in any way shape or form that hes a worse driver then webber?

i said that given considering
everyone labels him blisteringly quick, being beaten by a teammate that
general opinion labels as an average-good driver at a track that a drivers ability counts more then any other, doesnt suggest so. please read what i say before
going for the obvious throat and making an alonso>hamilton reference to a hamilton
fan. especially when its irrelevant.

I read it. I really did, as hard as it sometimes gets, i did read your post. And according to me my point still stands.

You state that his speed is nothing great by comparing it to Webber's performance in Monaco. So I'm comparing Lewis's speed (who is regarded by many as either the fastest or one of the fastest drivers) to his former teammate, Alonso's.

Because according to you if a driver is not faster than his teammate around Monaco then he there is no proof of his "blistering speed". (even though he out did his teammate by a scale factor of 2 when it comes to pole positions in comparison to Lewis's 2010 season in which he went against a reigning world champion and only scored one more pole position to him)

[JackMaster]

It's pretty easy to put 90% effort and make sure you finish every race with the car and tyres looking pretty. But that's also the reason why you lose the chance of being WDC a few races before the end, instead of the teammate who pushes it 110% and makes a couple of mistakes but still has a tiny shot in the last race. (No names mentioned)

A couple of mistakes Ham, whom are you referring?

Alonso beat Hamilton at the "Ultimate driver's track"... does that mean Alonso is better than Hamilton?

Yes of course, far better, for that and many other reasons. Remember that Alonso is a tough and intelligent driver, not only a fast one.

[Jensonb]

It's pretty easy to put 90% effort and make sure you finish every race with the car and tyres looking pretty. But that's also the reason why you lose the chance of being WDC a few races before the end, instead of the teammate who pushes it 110% and makes a couple of mistakes but still has a tiny shot in the last race. (No names mentioned)

Then again, some people have the consistency to win a world championship before the final round, whereas others have to wait until the final freaking turn, never mind round, of the season because they kept making mistakes.

Again, no names mentioned

[nish2280]

It's pretty easy to put 90% effort and make sure you finish every race with the car and tyres looking pretty. But that's also the reason why you lose the chance of being WDC a few races before the end, instead of the teammate who pushes it 110% and makes a couple of mistakes but still has a tiny shot in the last race. (No names mentioned)

A couple of mistakes Ham, whom are you referring?

Alonso beat Hamilton at the "Ultimate driver's track"... does that mean Alonso is better than Hamilton?

Yes of course, far better, for that and many other reasons. Remember that Alonso is a tough and intelligent driver, not only a fast one.

Please do not take my question out of context, i didnt mean to actually infer that Alonso is better, just that his logic in deciding a driver's speed is not as accurate as he might think it is.

[FRAFPDD]

It's pretty easy to put 90% effort and make sure you finish every race with the car and tyres looking pretty. But that's also the reason why you lose the chance of being WDC a few races before the end, instead of the teammate who pushes it 110% and makes a couple of mistakes but still has a tiny shot in the last race. (No names mentioned)

In regards to Vettel, he's got sublime speed. We saw some racecraft in Silverstone where he overtook cars left and right. Yes, the car was much stronger than the opposition he was overtaking, but apart from Lewis, how many overtakes do we see between cars in near-equal capability? McLaren-Ferrari-Redbull...not much.

Vettel is definitely a contender for many more WDCs, and he's only going to get better as time goes on, just like Lewis. These two haven't been in F1 very long, unlike their teammates who've been in the game for a decade or more.

hmm,
i just cant agree, remember how long it took him to work his way back up
the field in silcerstone, embaressingly long. this myth about he's still young, like i said alonso
and hamilton are clearly better, and like i said, unless his car is the top car, even
if only by a bit, i dont think he'll win again, dont understand the blistering speed part either, his onboard laps have never looked any different then anyone elses and he
was beaten to pole at none other then the ultimate driver track by webber. if anything hamilton having only one
title in going on 5 years in 2011 shows how hars the beat have it. vettels got a lot of work to do considering hes pretty
much as crash prone as
lewis and his overtaking skill is absolutely dire, dire.....

Alonso beat Hamilton at the "Ultimate driver's track"... does that mean Alonso is better than Hamilton?

i didnt imply in any way shape or form that hes a worse driver then webber?

i said that given considering
everyone labels him blisteringly quick, being beaten by a teammate that
general opinion labels as an average-good driver at a track that a drivers ability counts more then any other, doesnt suggest so. please read what i say before
going for the obvious throat and making an alonso>hamilton reference to a hamilton
fan. especially when its irrelevant.

I read it. I really did, as hard as it sometimes gets, i did read your post. And according to me my point still stands.

You state that his speed is nothing great by comparing it to Webber's performance in Monaco. So I'm comparing Lewis's speed (who is regarded by many as either the fastest or one of the fastest drivers) to his former teammate, Alonso's.

Because according to you if a driver is not faster than his teammate around Monaco then he there is no proof of his "blistering speed". (even though he out did his teammate by a scale factor of 2 when it comes to pole positions in comparison to Lewis's 2010 season in which he went against a reigning world champion and only scored one more pole position to him)

Yeah you really didnt read it, as proved by this recent piece i must now rip into in an attempt you quieten you down. Try replying to such retarded posts on a ipod, thats why its hard to read sometimes.

I did not state his speed is nothing by comparing to anything, there were no comparisons, i used an example, in the same car wwhich clearly dominated the track, a track which most would say is best at showing the drivers skill, and vettel couldnt get pole against a teammate most would say is only average-good.

"according to you if a driver is not faster..." tell me where i said that, no no, where i even implied that and ill show you a born liar. Once again i used Monaco as an example of my opinion, not hard proof of a dead certain fact.

Lastly once AGAIN, like most people that cannot take the slightest bit of meaningful criticism without becoming a 5 year old, you have turned it onto Lewis, who doesnt actualyl have anything to do with this thread, or debate.

[Robert12010]

It's pretty easy to put 90% effort and make sure you finish every race with the car and tyres looking pretty. But that's also the reason why you lose the chance of being WDC a few races before the end, instead of the teammate who pushes it 110% and makes a couple of mistakes but still has a tiny shot in the last race. (No names mentioned)

Then again, some people have the consistency to win a world championship before the final round, whereas others have to wait until the final freaking turn, never mind round, of the season because they kept making mistakes.

Again, no names mentioned

well doesnt matter if its won though

[racechick]

Alonso beat Hamilton at the "Ultimate driver's track"... does that mean Alonso is better than Hamilton?

Yes of course, far better, for that and many other reasons. Remember that Alonso is a tough and intelligent driver, not only a fast one.

He is also a driver that as a double world champion was beaten by a rookie hamilton in the same car. Why is that so tricky to remember

[Jensonb]

It's pretty easy to put 90% effort and make sure you finish every race with the car and tyres looking pretty. But that's also the reason why you lose the chance of being WDC a few races before the end, instead of the teammate who pushes it 110% and makes a couple of mistakes but still has a tiny shot in the last race. (No names mentioned)

Then again, some people have the consistency to win a world championship before the final round, whereas others have to wait until the final freaking turn, never mind round, of the season because they kept making mistakes.

Again, no names mentioned

well doesnt matter if its won though

Haha, yeah, of course. Don't get me wrong, I personally don't care, I just don't like skewed statistics