FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[smokin]

Love to seee him take some one on track.......but he wont.

"Won't"? I think you mean "can't".

[racechick]

Love to seee him take some one on track.......but he wont.

"Won't"? I think you mean "can't".

Yes Thats what I mean. he cant .hence the hystrionics. and team orders

[McHare]

So F1 is run by teams of 2 similar cars and it stands to reason that on the grid and race they will be in close proximity to each other. It's great to see team mates battle it out like we've seen on several occasions this season but I fear that if the teams can avoid the possibility of their cars taking each other out by direct instruction they will. Hell, drivers like Alonso would have it written into contracts. Consequently a huge amount of on track racing will disappear and we'll be forced to sit through radio transmissions of driver (a) being told to move over for driver (b). Great! Just what I want to see on a SUNDAY afternoon. I say ban pit to car radios and keep the team order ban to prevent race manipulation. Believe me, legal or not, the last thing I want to see is any car blatantly moving over for another.

[racechick]

So F1 is run by teams of 2 similar cars and it stands to reason that on the grid and race they will be in close proximity to each other. It's great to see team mates battle it out like we've seen on several occasions this season but I fear that if the teams can avoid the possibility of their cars taking each other out by direct instruction they will. Hell, drivers like Alonso would have it written into contracts. Consequently a huge amount of on track racing will disappear and we'll be forced to sit through radio transmissions of driver (a) being told to move over for driver (b). Great! Just what I want to see on a SUNDAY afternoon. I say ban pit to car radios and keep the team order ban to prevent race manipulation. Believe me, legal or not, the last thing I want to see is any car blatantly moving over for another.

[myownalias]

So F1 is run by teams of 2 similar cars and it stands to reason that on the grid and race they will be in close proximity to each other. It's great to see team mates battle it out like we've seen on several occasions this season but I fear that if the teams can avoid the possibility of their cars taking each other out by direct instruction they will. Hell, drivers like Alonso would have it written into contracts. Consequently a huge amount of on track racing will disappear and we'll be forced to sit through radio transmissions of driver (a) being told to move over for driver (b). Great! Just what I want to see on a SUNDAY afternoon. I say ban pit to car radios and keep the team order ban to prevent race manipulation. Believe me, legal or not, the last thing I want to see is any car blatantly moving over for another.

Very well said!

[vaptin]

Ban radios

Yeah, the teams would be happy with that. Look, this situation isn't going to come up a lot, think back to pre Shumacher 01, did it spoil your enjoyment that much?

We don't mind teams doing it when one drivers out of the championship, what happened here was Ferrari were in quite a poor position that they had to make it early, it clearly wasn't pre-determined and Ferrari gave Massa his shot. Of course, if Massa is leading Alonso, but really needs the extra points next season, then I expect Ferrari to role reverse, and I think they would.

[myownalias]

I like the idea of banning radios (not that it is going to happen); anything that improves racing and reduces race fixing (aka team orders), I'm all for it!!!

You know what I find funny about this whole situation; Massa is now closer in points to Alonso than he was before the infamous Germany team orders incident after Alonso put his Ferrari in the wall in Belgium, the team order really hasn't worked because Alonso isn't as "complete" as many people think, whine, whine, handed victory, 3rd, crash!!!

[vaptin]

I like the idea of banning radios (not that it is going to happen); anything that improves racing and reduces race fixing (aka team orders), I'm all for it!!!

You know what I find funny about this whole situation; Massa is now closer in points to Alonso than he was before the infamous Germany team orders incident after Alonso put his Ferrari in the wall in Belgium, the team order really hasn't worked because Alonso isn't as "complete" as many people think, whine, whine, handed victory, 3rd, crash!!!

Massa's been more consistent, but never looked like making the step up to winning this years WDC. Alonso, well if he calms down, focuses and enjoys himself a bit has the ability.

[Flux]

So F1 is run by teams of 2 similar cars and it stands to reason that on the grid and race they will be in close proximity to each other. It's great to see team mates battle it out like we've seen on several occasions this season but I fear that if the teams can avoid the possibility of their cars taking each other out by direct instruction they will. Hell, drivers like Alonso would have it written into contracts. Consequently a huge amount of on track racing will disappear and we'll be forced to sit through radio transmissions of driver (a) being told to move over for driver (b). Great! Just what I want to see on a SUNDAY afternoon. I say ban pit to car radios and keep the team order ban to prevent race manipulation. Believe me, legal or not, the last thing I want to see is any car blatantly moving over for another.

this is exactly right, you couldn't have put it better. A drivers closest and most important rival is his team mate, and its generally where we see the best racing as they are in the same car

[McHare]

In answer to the question of those pre Schui days being good, I think things have changed quite frankly. We expect F1 to be more entertaining. Although I would hope it wouldn't happen often, the next time an arranged overtake robs us of entertainment, the popular media will destroy F1. In fact I think this has already happened to an extent. The popular press and national media have relegated F1 down the sporting ladder over the past 10 - 15 years and I thinks it due to the FIA induced nonsense. Maybe I'm just becoming a grumPy old man. Bah humbug

[vaptin]

In answer to the question of those pre Schui days being good, I think things have changed quite frankly. We expect F1 to be more entertaining. Although I would hope it wouldn't happen often, the next time an arranged overtake robs us of entertainment, the popular media will destroy F1. In fact I think this has already happened to an extent. The popular press and national media have relegated F1 down the sporting ladder over the past 10 - 15 years and I thinks it due to the FIA induced nonsense. Maybe I'm just becoming a grumPy old man. Bah humbug

Dunno though, most serious f1 reporting has played it down from what I've read (which is just the bbc admittedly, but hey they're supposed to be neutral) and openly admitting it as a part of the sport, surely it doesn't become newsworthy anymore? Akr mentioned examples of it happening in other motorsports, did they get widely reported?

[The Immortal Dragon]

It seems that teams don't trust their drivers who get paid millions of $$$ to not crash into each other; says a lot about the teams confidence in their drivers doesn't it?

I think it is very easy for two drivers to crash into each other.
A wrong assumption is enough (eg. "Webber is going to yield, I can move right") for the whole thing to end in a disaster.
And having Red Bull issued that warning that team-mates fighting each other can be very dangerous points-wise, I think it's normal Ferrari decided to do it the "hard way".
Team-mates battling is always a very risky thing, as we have seen in the past. Also because the rivalship within the team is unique.

Also, they don't necessarily need to "crash into each other", they just need to break a front wing; which is nowadays very easy to do.

[myownalias]

You know what I find funny about this whole situation; Massa is now closer in points to Alonso than he was before the infamous Germany team orders incident after Alonso put his Ferrari in the wall in Belgium, the team order really hasn't worked because Alonso isn't as "complete" as many people think, whine, whine, handed victory, 3rd, crash!!!

Massa's been more consistent, but never looked like making the step up to winning this years WDC. Alonso, well if he calms down, focuses and enjoys himself a bit has the ability.

That's the thing; we will never know! If Massa didn't have to yield to Alonso and won the race, that may have been the springboard he needed to mount a WDC challenge!

[f1ea]

So F1 is run by teams of 2 similar cars and it stands to reason that on the grid and race they will be in close proximity to each other. It's great to see team mates battle it out like we've seen on several occasions this season but I fear that if the teams can avoid the possibility of their cars taking each other out by direct instruction they will. Hell, drivers like Alonso would have it written into contracts. Consequently a huge amount of on track racing will disappear and we'll be forced to sit through radio transmissions of driver (a) being told to move over for driver (b). Great! Just what I want to see on a SUNDAY afternoon. I say ban pit to car radios and keep the team order ban to prevent race manipulation. Believe me, legal or not, the last thing I want to see is any car blatantly moving over for another.

Banning radio communication is totally out of place.

So... the 2 similar cars should be running about equally... then how come Vettel didnt go out of his way to block Massa?? how come for the WDC contenders it was better that Alonso DNFd than it mattered that Massa got a 4th?

By your reasoning: the teams should be oblivious to what EVERYONE else acknowledges??
That is ridiculous.

this is exactly right, you couldn't have put it better. A drivers closest and most important rival is his team mate, and its generally where we see the best racing as they are in the same car

Really?? it can be the closest rival, but definitely not the most important.
The driver's most important rival is whoever is ahead/closest of them in the standings! doesnt matter who it is or which car he's driving.

The whole team order issue came about because teams couldnt find a way of getting Schumacher beaten. Period. Everything else is just decorative pseudo-logic to justify the final goal: beating the competition.

[vaptin]

You know what I find funny about this whole situation; Massa is now closer in points to Alonso than he was before the infamous Germany team orders incident after Alonso put his Ferrari in the wall in Belgium, the team order really hasn't worked because Alonso isn't as "complete" as many people think, whine, whine, handed victory, 3rd, crash!!!

Massa's been more consistent, but never looked like making the step up to winning this years WDC. Alonso, well if he calms down, focuses and enjoys himself a bit has the ability.

That's the thing; we will never know! If Massa didn't have to yield to Alonso and won the race, that may have been the springboard he needed to mount a WDC challenge!

Quite possibly, I was thinking that in the race.

Still, he was someway behind Alonso despite Alonso's various mistakes and poor luck.