FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[EwanM]

Bar the wheel man and maybe one or two surrounding the team wouldn't have known until they released Alonso

Then the wheel man and those surrounding the car shouldn't have sent them out. They are supposed to have systems by which the car is not released until all the wheels are on. We've all seen them making signals to indicate that the wheel change (for their wheel) is finished. This is no excuse whatsoever.

No it is a valid excuse. Because you can practice all the moves, maybe even throw in some ballet if you get bored, but in the heat of the moment sometimes you make rash decisions. And that is what happened today.

The jack was down, indicating that the car was ready to roll, that is obviously "in the routine" the moment where the lolly pop man and the driver get ready to release.

After that Renault might have handled the situation slightly better, but the team on the pitwall would have probably not known of the problem until Fernando was back on the track.

I mean Ferrari back in Singapore made a boob with theit pitstop as you know. They are meant to signal to indicate it was ready..... why didn't they get banned because that was obviously dangerous?

hypocrisy hypocrisy

[KyrosV]

not happy,

I thought Fernando did a good job trying to nurse the car back. I never thought the tyre was actually going to come off!! like im sure others thought the same. but I did cringe with surtees flashbacks.

... maybe the race ban was a bit harsh and was definitely a ploy as a warning to all F1 teams.

but what im really scared of is the Fernando - Ferrari question. its likely of a clause that could allow him to race in valencia onwards as massa's replacement.

I mean DAMN! if we return in spa with Grosjean and Boardais then we are going to be ruined

[EwanM]

The teams need to be punished for such actions, but not with racebans. It damages the sport more and more.

[FerrariFan63]

No it is a valid excuse. Because you can practice all the moves, maybe even throw in some ballet if you get bored, but in the heat of the moment sometimes you make rash decisions. And that is what happened today.

The jack was down, indicating that the car was ready to roll, that is obviously "in the routine" the moment where the lolly pop man and the driver get ready to release.

After that Renault might have handled the situation slightly better, but the team on the pitwall would have probably not known of the problem until Fernando was back on the track.

They might have handled the situation "slightly better"? They could have easily prevented the extremely dangerous situation of a tyre bouncing around a track. And the FIA says that they have proof that Renault did this "knowingly". So I don't see where your "team on the pitwall would have probably not known...." comes from. Were you there? How do you know what did or didn't happen?

I mean Ferrari back in Singapore made a boob with theit pitstop as you know. They are meant to signal to indicate it was ready..... why didn't they get banned because that was obviously dangerous?

hypocrisy hypocrisy

It seems that people supporting other teams seem to think that bringing up the Ferrari card somehow should excuse other teams from anything they do. When discussing what Renault did at this race, and what is the proper penalty for Renaults knowing actions, what Ferrari did last year is of no relevance.

[FerrariFan63]

The teams need to be punished for such actions, but not with racebans. It damages the sport more and more.

No, when a team knowingly does something as dangerous as Renault did today, a race ban is an entirely appropriate penalty. We've seen race bans applied for stupid reasons before, e.g. Honda's so-called "cheating". But today the penalty was right and proper. You cannot allow teams to get away with endangering people in the way that Renault did today. How much would a death of a driver "damage the sport".

[EwanM]

The difference being Ferrarifan63, is that I entirely agree with you when it comes to judging Renault.
They are guilty as charged.

However they should not be given such a strict penalty.

[FerrariFan63]

The difference being Ferrarifan63, is that I entirely agree with you when it comes to judging Renault.
They are guilty as charged.

However they should not be given such a strict penalty.

I disagree. It was just too dangerous an act to not have a serious penalty, and a race ban is appropriate. If you don't apply serious, effective, penalties then other teams (and Renault in the future) may be tempted to throw the dice in similar dangerous situations. A race ban will send a strong message. A fine or demotion on the grid, wouldn't have IMHO.

[Denthúl]

Interestingly, this does add to my opinion that those wheel covers shouldn't be permitted because we've seen them cause so many problems over the past couple of years.

[Frosty]

Interestingly, this does add to my opinion that those wheel covers shouldn't be permitted because we've seen them cause so many problems over the past couple of years.

I agree I have seen several of them come off this season I think they will be banned soon.

[EwanM]

The difference being Ferrarifan63, is that I entirely agree with you when it comes to judging Renault.
They are guilty as charged.

However they should not be given such a strict penalty.

I disagree. It was just too dangerous an act to not have a serious penalty, and a race ban is appropriate. If you don't apply serious, effective, penalties then other teams (and Renault in the future) may be tempted to throw the dice in similar dangerous situations. A race ban will send a strong message. A fine or demotion on the grid, wouldn't have IMHO.

Ok then we'll see if you change your tune next time (and there will be a next time) that your team make a mistake.

If Ferrari had done this, or Mclaren or anybody I would have said the same thing as I'm saying tonight.

[Gaz]

FerrariFan based on what you have said, do you not feel Ferrari should of been banned for their actions in France 08

Surely that was Much more dangours than what Renault did today.

[Frosty]

The difference being Ferrarifan63, is that I entirely agree with you when it comes to judging Renault.
They are guilty as charged.

However they should not be given such a strict penalty.

I disagree. It was just too dangerous an act to not have a serious penalty, and a race ban is appropriate. If you don't apply serious, effective, penalties then other teams (and Renault in the future) may be tempted to throw the dice in similar dangerous situations. A race ban will send a strong message. A fine or demotion on the grid, wouldn't have IMHO.

Ok then we'll see if you change your tune next time (and there will be a next time) that your team make a mistake.

If Ferrari had done this, or Mclaren or anybody I would have said the same thing as I'm saying tonight.

I agree I think this punishment is harsh but what is the penalty in the rule book?

[Hexagram]

What really pisses me off is that the FIA are going about it as if it was intentional. It was a mistake by the lollipop man.

I'm reading people saying Renault should have told Alonso to pull over & retire! That is f**king madness, they did not know that the tyre was going to come off, they would have imagined he could made it back to the pits so they could fix the problem, its what any other team would have done.

There was no punishment for Kimi in 2005 when McLaren knowing right well that his tyre could explode after he flat spotted it. Then it did explode which was very dangerous but alas nothing was done about it.

What about Kimi in 2008 in France? His entire exhaust flew off the car and Ferrari knew it was going to happen. Again the FIA did nothing about it.

I think an appropriate penalty is a fine and a suspended race ban.

For the FIA to even suggest it was intentional is so stupid it begs belief. I mean seriously, why would any team intentionally not put a tyre properly on one of their drivers cars?

Let me have a stab at 8 FIA standard plausible reasons for why it was intentional...

1 - It was a practical joke, Alonso dared the mechanic to do it over the radio.
2 - Alonso told Flavio he had signed a Ferrari contract for next season, Flavio ordered the mechanic to do it out of spite.
3 - Alonso had gotten over friendly with the mechanics girlfriend so he decided to get his own back.
4 - Alonso didn't give the mechanic a requested autograph so he did it on purpose.
5 - Alonso called Flavio fat over the radio to Flavio ordered it to be done.
6 - The Renault mechanics don't like winning or scoring points so it was intentional.
7 - The mechanic was paid by Piquet Snr to do it so Piquet could beat Alonso.
8 - The mechanic was actually Piquet Snr in disguise as the mechanic wanted too much money to do it.

[FerrariFan63]

If Ferrari had done this, or Mclaren or anybody I would have said the same thing as I'm saying tonight.

If it's a mistake as serious as this one, including knowingly sending out a car with a loose wheel, I will not change my tune.

[Gaz]

If Ferrari had done this, or Mclaren or anybody I would have said the same thing as I'm saying tonight.

If it's a mistake as serious as this one, including knowingly sending out a car with a loose wheel, I will not change my tune.

yeh but your being petty here.

i mean its not like they stood in the pits for a few mins debating to f*** alonso race over.

They coudn't of had alonso stop in the pit lane could they? the only thing they could of done to ensure alonso keep racing is it hope it stayed on and pitted him.

and f1 teams are compative beast they don't roll over and die if they can help it.

Ferrrari, Mclaren, Williams ANY OTHER team would of done the same thing.