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[vaptin]

Ferrari's a better team than Renault, don't think if in 2010 Ferrari had offered Kubica a contract for 2011 he'd be saying no.
Anyway he was just a example driver, what I was saying was if Massa doesn't perform Ferrari will eventually replace him and this season choose to make him number two instead of that.

[FRAFPDD]

Ferrari's a better team than Renault, don't think if in 2010 Ferrari had offered Kubica a contract for 2011 he'd be saying no.
Anyway he was just a example driver, what I was saying was if Massa doesn't perform Ferrari will eventually replace him and this season choose to make him number two instead of that.

I dont think anything youve said is relevant until youve answered, in your own entirely valid opinion of course, what you mean by what ive bolded?

I half know exactly what you meant by it, but your looking at pure quality of car if you ask me, Alonso or Hamilton would have won in 2007 almost definitely if one had been favoured from the start, was the Mclaren fastest, no the Ferrari was. Why is that relevant, well because soemthing other then how good the car was cost them a title, if Kubica goes to Ferrari, Alonso will not like it, he doesnt care if its Massa, schumacher, hamilton, he will not like anyone challenging him in his team ever again. As proven. Funnily enough i think Kubica would jump ship too, but im going to debate your post and reasoning if it doesnt quite make sense to me, too many assumptions. Ferrari hasnt been the best car since 2008, only two years, but two years in which teams nobody would of thought of winning, did win, and Renault are a two time championship winning team (On the rise might i add). Ferrari need to do a Mclaren and bring in a young frenchman called Jules. Get their team all fresh and new, Massa seems a bit stagnant.

[vaptin]

We're comparing Ferrari to Renault, Renault last won in 06, maybe their on the rise but they still don't have the budget and resources to compete with Ferrari, and I don't think are likely to out perform them next season, also Ferrari offers more consistency than Renault in the long term.
And Stefano's take on driver relations seems quite different from Dennis's, at anyrate Alonso needs Ferrari more than they need him, he can't really walk away from the team so is more likely to keep in line.

[FRAFPDD]

We're comparing Ferrari to Renault, Renault last won in 06, maybe their on the rise but they still don't have the budget and resources to compete with Ferrari, and I don't think are likely to out perform them next season, also Ferrari offers more consistency than Renault in the long term.
And Stefano's take on driver relations seems quite different from Dennis's, at anyrate Alonso needs Ferrari more than they need him, he can't really walk away from the team so is more likely to keep in line.

Few things, its not all about budget, mainly it is! but not all, also, renault is a huge car manafacturer, they start geting noticed they get more dough from the big guns at the paris HQ. Surely Renault get more money then Ferrari purely through road car sales?, which in turn is the main selling and profit point of both.

Second bold i really struggle to understand, the onyl difference in Dennis and Stefano is that Dennis didnt give a crap about Alonso afterwards, yet Stefano is still on good terms with Massa, that is the only difference. Both favour drivers.

Last bold, Ferrari need Alonso too, and his Santander millions. If they didnt have Alonso theyd have Massa, they need Alonso A LOT. Lastly, he didnt keep in line at Mclaren 2007 for whatever reason is irrelevant, but actualyl took back a race seat in the crud renault of 08 and 09 just to not be in the Mclaren wwith Dennis/Lewis. He really would leave Ferrari if they gave Kubica a whiff of beating him.

[vaptin]

Renault are pretty much just that in name, the car company are not the majority shareholder, I don't even know if they still own any part of Renault f1. The budget isn't there.

Alonso could afford to leave Mclaren, he was younger, Ferrari is pretty much his last shot at winning more championships, I don't see why everyone assumes his relationship will end up the same as with Hamilton. A lot went wrong there, Kubica probably knows the team mate game better than Hamilton did. And Ferrari get the benefit of history, so they'll make expectations etc clear from the start.

[racechick]

A word about Massa before he's completely rubbished and slagged off.

-He's been team mate with Schumacher, and was getting the upper hand .- I watched them race at Turkey when lewis was blitzing GP2, the race betwen Alonso and Schumacher was close and exciting, but it was for second place, Massa was a country mile down the road.
-He's partnered Kimi and was getting the upperhand.
- He nearly beat Lewis for the championship in 2008.
This is not some guy who can't race. Ok so whats gone wrong this year(apart from being partnered with an egotistical, selfish, mardy baby)

*he hasnt coped with the tyres. Nor has Schumacher. (Interestingly Schumacher tutored Massa)
*he couldnt drive round the tyre problem. Nor could Sch...see above
*He hasnt coped psychologically with being shat on

The last point I think is Massa's real weeakness. He has allowed an arrogant, egotistical driver to undermine him and mess with his head ....as Hamilton never did...and nor would schumacher. So yes Massa has a flaw, but its not his driving.

[What's Burning?]

A word about Massa before he's completely rubbished and slagged off.

-He's been team mate with Schumacher, and was getting the upper hand .- I watched them race at Turkey when lewis was blitzing GP2, the race betwen Alonso and Schumacher was close and exciting, but it was for second place, Massa was a country mile down the road.
-He's partnered Kimi and was getting the upperhand.
- He nearly beat Lewis for the championship in 2008.
This is not some guy who can't race. Ok so whats gone wrong this year(apart from being partnered with an egotistical, selfish, mardy baby)

*he hasnt coped with the tyres. Nor has Schumacher. (Interestingly Schumacher tutored Massa)
*he couldnt drive round the tyre problem. Nor could Sch...see above
*He hasnt coped psychologically with being shat on

The last point I think is Massa's real weeakness. He has allowed an arrogant, egotistical driver to undermine him and mess with his head ....as Hamilton never did...and nor would schumacher. So yes Massa has a flaw, but its not his driving.

Ballsy post RC.

[vaptin]

I never said Massa was a poor driver, neither did Luca, I said he had a bad season, for pretty much all of it. He did.

[texasmr2]

Good post RC and very insightful .

[SennaVille]

reading through the thread...

F1ea quoting F1er quoting F1ea quoting F1er... confusing.

I had to do a double-take there. I actually thought it was one poster arguing with him/herself. Which brought this to mind



Back on topic! I agree with Vapin. Based on his performance this year, Flipper should count himself one lucky dolphin to still have his Ferrari ride. Not that I think it's been his fault entirely, but we all know how ruthless the team can be!

[vaptin]

[

Back on topic! I agree with Vapin.

How can you agree with that asswhole?

[F1er]

Yes RC he should have taken the Alonso vaccine,he is definetly infected now,and I dont see a cure for the future,unless he get a blood transfusion,(Lewis blood) and gives Alonso a taste of 2007!

[vaptin]

Yes RC he should have taken the Alonso vaccine,he is definetly infected now,and I dont see a cure for the future,unless he get a blood transfusion,(Lewis blood) and gives Alonso a taste of 2007!

Seriously, the anti bill thing was the best thing I've come up with in a long time.

Actually, get into an argument with bill will you? I want to see if you mutually destroy each other,

[texasmr2]

If you stop feeding them eventually they die .

[SennaVille]

[

Back on topic! I agree with Vapin.

How can you agree with that asswhole?

Jaysus! Because I spelled your name wrong, for a minute there I actually thought I had a two-face vapin/vaptin scanario on my hands