FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[richindarlo]

Max showed what kind of professional on the BBC today, calling some of the teams loonies. I mean, yea, i think some of the teams are at fault, some of the time, but Max needs to come back to the real world. He should realise that the teams, the media, the fans and even the people who really dont have an interest in F1 (the real loonies ), cant all be wrong.
He should either resign or accept egg on the face and get on with it.

[myownalias]

I now believe that Max does need to be replaced, not for proposing the budget cap but for not standing his ground; he is constantly moving the deadline and has lost all credibility. The way things are going, we'll still be discussing this issue come next year and if FOTA still don't get their own way, they'll be off and the potential new teams would have lost interest leaving F1 with only Williams, Force India, USGPE, Campos and Manor. Just give into FOTA's latest compromise and let's get on with racing as ultimately that is what's going to happen as I never actually see Max standing his ground and moving forward with his plans.

The budget cap was never the problem the teams agreed they needed to cut costs but the way to go about it is not budget cap which can't be enforced.

What gives Max the RIGHT to make up the rules like he does, put up superlicence fee's without any real justification moan about the teams spending too much but then introduce KERS

The ONLY good thing Max Mosley has ever done is to improve safety.

Even FOTA agreed to a budget cap of €100m for 2010 with a step down to €45m from 2011 onwards. I believe the big stumbling block in the end is FOTA not having the power to rule over F1 governance. FOTA want more power; Max doesn't want to relinquish his power. The superlicence thing was complete BS, that was probably to fund his Nazi fetish! And yes the KERS system was a massive waste of money so in that respect he is a hypocrite. But both sides have been childish is this situation, I still doubt that a FOTA championship will be up and running in nine months time. I believe that announcing a FOTA championship is just to put the pressure back on the FIA and it's worked!

Fota suggested it but Max Turned it down i belive.

It wouldn't of been enforcable in anycase.

It would be enforcible as even FOTA has suggested independent auditors to keep tabs on finances. I meant to say that FOTA (based on Norbert Haug idea) suggested that; and the FIA and Max agreed in recent days, the problem is the FOTA wants more governance; which I don't agree with but definitely agree teams should get more from the commercial side; but I do think that monies should be distributed evenly throughout the grid instead of to the best performing teams getting more than lesser performing teams getting less or even nothing if a point isn't scored which has ultimately made F1 a two tier championship, hence why the same teams win time and time again.

[headless]

What a bunch of dicks Max and Bernie are being over this whol;e tihng,

[Gaz]

It would be enforcible as even FOTA has suggested independent auditors to keep tabs on finances. I meant to say that FOTA (based on Norbert Haug idea) suggested that; and the FIA and Max agreed in recent days, the problem is the FOTA wants more governance; which I don't agree with but definitely agree teams should get more from the commercial side; but I do think that monies should be distributed evenly throughout the grid instead of to the best performing teams getting more than lesser performing teams getting less or even nothing if a point isn't scored which has ultimately made F1 a two tier championship, hence why the same teams win time and time again.

It wouldn't of been enforcable trust me especialy for companies like BMW, Ferrari, Mclaren etc..

they could of developed a part using there commercial automotive side had the designers all work under that, and then given it for free to there team.

you could have them put costs down as Motorhome development or Marketing Development which are really for the car.

Also why Shouldn't fota have more governance look at all the technical ideas the FIA have brought in, they haven't really done much to improve the sport without any regulation changes this year we would be watching a really close fight the brawn would still of been compative under the management of Ross but the other teams would of been able to develop there 08 contenders further and we'd have a really good title fight on our hands.

The teams have people like Ross, Newley etc.. who understand what things like Wider front wings will do to a car they put the money down and have the risk of an idea working. They spend the money on developing the car they should have a say in the rules.

KERS cost half a billion for the teams to develop no one wants it. That was one of the FIAs stupid ideas.

Read back over the last year or so and you see "world engine" and other daft ideas from Max and as a team owner you just must go - this is it hes going to ruin F1.

No wonder FOTA want more say.

The commercial side of things yeh i agree its disgusting that Ecclestone takes 50% of the revenue for doing relatively sweet FA.

Formula One Administration Ltd which holes the commercial rights for F1 which i assume is the Media rights, TV - Radio etc.. made pre-tax profits of $447 million and thats only one slice of the Pie you still have the trackside advertising that is a different company media distribution again a diffrent company.

I'd love to know what the overall profit of FOM is but they can give Ferrari $80mil every year it must be in the billions so if they all got a decent part of the income of F1 they wouldn't need a budget cap.

There should be a slight bonus for the WCC and WDC teams but 10% something nice but not huge.

Look at the Premier League you don't see them being budget capped because all the teams are getting an equal share direct to all members of the EPL pretty much.

[billindenver]

It would be enforcible as even FOTA has suggested independent auditors to keep tabs on finances. I meant to say that FOTA (based on Norbert Haug idea) suggested that; and the FIA and Max agreed in recent days, the problem is the FOTA wants more governance; which I don't agree with but definitely agree teams should get more from the commercial side; but I do think that monies should be distributed evenly throughout the grid instead of to the best performing teams getting more than lesser performing teams getting less or even nothing if a point isn't scored which has ultimately made F1 a two tier championship, hence why the same teams win time and time again.

It wouldn't of been enforcable trust me especialy for companies like BMW, Ferrari, Mclaren etc..

they could of developed a part using there commercial automotive side had the designers all work under that, and then given it for free to there team.

you could have them put costs down as Motorhome development or Marketing Development which are really for the car.

Also why Shouldn't fota have more governance look at all the technical ideas the FIA have brought in, they haven't really done much to improve the sport without any regulation changes this year we would be watching a really close fight the brawn would still of been compative under the management of Ross but the other teams would of been able to develop there 08 contenders further and we'd have a really good title fight on our hands.

The teams have people like Ross, Newley etc.. who understand what things like Wider front wings will do to a car they put the money down and have the risk of an idea working. They spend the money on developing the car they should have a say in the rules.

KERS cost half a billion for the teams to develop no one wants it. That was one of the FIAs stupid ideas.

Read back over the last year or so and you see "world engine" and other daft ideas from Max and as a team owner you just must go - this is it hes going to ruin F1.

No wonder FOTA want more say.

The commercial side of things yeh i agree its disgusting that Ecclestone takes 50% of the revenue for doing relatively sweet FA.

Formula One Administration Ltd which holes the commercial rights for F1 which i assume is the Media rights, TV - Radio etc.. made pre-tax profits of $447 million and thats only one slice of the Pie you still have the trackside advertising that is a different company media distribution again a diffrent company.

I'd love to know what the overall profit of FOM is but they can give Ferrari $80mil every year it must be in the billions so if they all got a decent part of the income of F1 they wouldn't need a budget cap.

There should be a slight bonus for the WCC and WDC teams but 10% something nice but not huge.

Look at the Premier League you don't see them being budget capped because all the teams are getting an equal share direct to all members of the EPL pretty much.

I hate to do it....but...

[darwin dali]

Problem is brand value. The Force India brand just doesn't have the pull of the Ferrari brand, so they shouldn't get as much dough as they don't contribute as much to the overall income.

[headless]

Problem is brand value. The Force India brand just doesn't have the pull of the Ferrari brand, so they shouldn't get as much dough as they don't contribute as much to the overall income.

Yeah but that way the rich teams get richer and the poor get poorer

[darwin dali]

Problem is brand value. The Force India brand just doesn't have the pull of the Ferrari brand, so they shouldn't get as much dough as they don't contribute as much to the overall income.

Yeah but that way the rich teams get richer and the poor get poorer

That's life. And like in real life, sometimes somebody finds a treasure and gets rich (Brawn GP, Red Bull)...

[headless]

Problem is brand value. The Force India brand just doesn't have the pull of the Ferrari brand, so they shouldn't get as much dough as they don't contribute as much to the overall income.

Yeah but that way the rich teams get richer and the poor get poorer

That's life. And like in real life, sometimes somebody finds a treasure and gets rich (Brawn GP, Red Bull)...

Too true
(I don't mean its bad that some teams/people strike gold)

[myownalias]

Longbow: It won't be easy to regulate but it's possible; if pieces of bodywork/parts start turning up without a financial trail then the independent auditors will surely look into where those parts originated from. Having heavy penalties for both team and drivers such as being excluded from scoring points in the year of the transgression.

That should give teams the incentive to not try to cheat the system!!! And it would be going against the so-called spirit of competition in F1 I keep hearing about!

Life isn't far but at the same time this is why we find ourselves in this situation because the little independent teams are finding it hard to compete and eventually run out of funding and disappear from the grid. If all teams got an equal slice of monies then smaller teams would be able to compete better and wouldn't have to worry about making it to the next race. This is why Max introduced the budget cap (even of he went about it wrongly) to level the playing field that way instead of Bernie changing his greedy habits.

[Gaz]

Longbow: It won't be easy to regulate but it's possible; if pieces of bodywork/parts start turning up without a financial trail then the independent auditors will surely look into where those parts originated from. Having heavy penalties for both team and drivers such as being excluded from scoring points in the year of the transgression.

The Body works costs Sweet Fa to manufacture its the R&D and testing that costs. And that would be neigh impossible to police because you wouldn't only see the finished part.

That should give teams the incentive to not try to cheat the system!!! And it would be going against the so-called spirit of competition in F1 I keep hearing about!

Yeh its alright saying that but when you have teams needing to produce results for there sponsors and manufacturers that goes out of the window.

Life isn't far but at the same time this is why we find ourselves in this situation because the little independent teams are finding it hard to compete and eventually run out of funding and disappear from the grid. If all teams got an equal slice of monies then smaller teams would be able to compete better and wouldn't have to worry about making it to the next race. This is why Max introduced the budget cap (even of he went about it wrongly) to level the playing field that way instead of Bernie changing his greedy habits.

We've lost 1 team and that was though a sponsor f*king them over.

The fact is if all the teams got a bigger slice of the pie they wouldn't need a budget cap or anything like it.

[headless]

The fact is if all the teams got a bigger slice of the pie they wouldn't need a budget cap or anything like it.

Possible.

[FerrariFan63]

In my opinion, Formula one cannot survive with Max Mosley at the helm. But even if he left, things may not improve. Look at the huge majority by which his lunatic proposals pass through votes. He's clearly loaded the FIA with yes-men, who most likely are just as insane as him, but second rate lunatics or they wouldn't act as yes men to the likes of Mosley. There has to be a sea change to make things work again, and FOTA might just be what the sport needs. Not that FOTA or the people running it are perfect, but they're a whole level above the FIA.

[headless]

I thought F1 needed him last year, I sort of stuck by him during the saga, but now HE HAS GOT TO GO!

[myownalias]

As I said I think that the budget cap came from the same three teams winning everything; in the last 10 years; Ferrari, McLaren and Renault have cleaned up and teams dropping away because of lack of funds because they weren't competitive. The chances of Bernie coughing up $80m to all the teams is unlikely as is an equal share of money so the only way to level the playing field is a budget cap and to police that the best they can; anyone caught will be severely punished. In reality the whole F1 circus needs restructuring from the top down but that doesn't mean the teams should run the sport with the FIA being referee, teams and rule making powers should remain separate IMO!