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[texasmr2]

I read that Aldo Costa commented that the exhausts are presently illegal and that they're using the 2008 system for shake down testing only. The actual exhaust will be fitted to the car for the first race, which makes me think that either they're behind on the development, or they've got something innovative that they don't want copied .

If you look at the pics, there are lots of hardware fittings around this portion of the car, which leads one to believe that they can swap things out easily.

31757_F2009_26.jpg

26936_090003mug.jpg

[racechick]

I seriously doubt it is an oversight with the exhuast I just wish we knew the reasoning behind it.

Pushing limits as they know the other teams are keen for unity and will possibley not question it. Same as the winglet on the ferrari in front of the sidepods. That goes against the concensus agreed by the teams to get rid of apendiges but its not been questioned. Wonder what else they've slipped through.

[texasmr2]

I seriously doubt it is an oversight with the exhuast I just wish we knew the reasoning behind it.

Pushing limits as they know the other teams are keen for unity and will possibley not question it. Same as the winglet on the ferrari in front of the sidepods. That goes against the concensus agreed by the teams to get rid of apendiges but its not been questioned. Wonder what else they've slipped through.

I was editing my post as you were replying. As long as they are legal and conforming when the season officially starts who cares?

[FerrariFan63]

As long as they are legal and conforming when the season officially starts who cares?

Quite a few people, it would seem from this thread.

[FerrariFan63]

Yeh but Torro rosso aren't trying to meet the new regulations with that car, Ferrari are and have failed at it, your not telling me they would design illigal exhausts? no its an oversite and a bad one that will set them back.

As pointed out by texasmr2, they aren't trying to meet the regulations with that exhaust. So, it's no oversight, that's for sure.

I expect they will get it sorted but i wouldn't be dissapointed if they were at the back half of the field with Mclaren 1-2 for the first few races.

I prefer to see racing. Having even your favourite team way out in front with no competition gets boring after a while.

[texasmr2]

Yeh but Torro rosso aren't trying to meet the new regulations with that car, Ferrari are and have failed at it, your not telling me they would design illigal exhausts? no its an oversite and a bad one that will set them back.

As pointed out by texasmr2, they aren't trying to meet the regulations with that exhaust. So, it's no oversight, that's for sure.

I expect they will get it sorted but i wouldn't be dissapointed if they were at the back half of the field with Mclaren 1-2 for the first few races.

I prefer to see racing. Having even your favourite team way out in front with no competition gets boring after a while.

As you have seen those of us standing around the Ferrari campfire are doing nothing but scheming and being accused of misdeads or cheating . Typical !

[racechick]

As long as they are legal and conforming when the season officially starts who cares?

Quite a few people, it would seem from this thread.

I dont care what they do before the season starts but the worry is that they will continue when the season starts. Look at the rear view of the ferrari that tex posted. Those mirrors are postd on vertical vanes , the sort of thing that was not supposed to be on the cars this season, the sort of thing that causes air turbulence in the cars vwake. And there they are on the ferrari bold as brass, "a feature that clearly gets around a commonly agreed intent" The quotes are from a Mark Hughes article in this weeks autosport. So what do the teams do? complain that this is not what was agreed or let it go as harmony amongst the teams is of greater importance. Geez why cant Ferrari play by the rules once in a while!!

Mark Hughes started his article with a quote from an old timer on seeing the Ferrari "What the hell's that? I thought all that crap was supposed to be consigned to history with the new regs."

[FerrariFan63]

I dont care what they do before the season starts but the worry is that they will continue when the season starts.

Mark Hughes started his article with a quote from an old timer on seeing the Ferrari "What the hell's that? I thought all that crap was supposed to be consigned to history with the new regs."

Well, first we have to see whether these pieces are on the car come the first race. Previously posted comment suggests that they won't be.

I read that Aldo Costa commented that the exhausts are presently illegal and that they're using the 2008 system for shake down testing only.

If they're still there come raceday, then we still have to look at what the rules say in more detail.

[Denthúl]

I seriously doubt it is an oversight with the exhuast I just wish we knew the reasoning behind it.

Pushing limits as they know the other teams are keen for unity and will possibley not question it. Same as the winglet on the ferrari in front of the sidepods. That goes against the concensus agreed by the teams to get rid of apendiges but its not been questioned. Wonder what else they've slipped through.

Pushing the limits is what Formula One is about. Innovation does not come from stopping when it looks like you've gone as far as you can. Every team should be trying to rest right on the lines of legality. If they're not, they aren't competitive enough. There are a lot of things that, to me, are questionable but if there wasn't a high chance that they were legal, then they would not be on the cars.

As long as they are legal and conforming when the season officially starts who cares?

Quite a few people, it would seem from this thread.

I dont care what they do before the season starts but the worry is that they will continue when the season starts. Look at the rear view of the ferrari that tex posted. Those mirrors are postd on vertical vanes , the sort of thing that was not supposed to be on the cars this season, the sort of thing that causes air turbulence in the cars vwake. And there they are on the ferrari bold as brass, "a feature that clearly gets around a commonly agreed intent" The quotes are from a Mark Hughes article in this weeks autosport. So what do the teams do? complain that this is not what was agreed or let it go as harmony amongst the teams is of greater importance. Geez why cant Ferrari play by the rules once in a while!!

Mark Hughes started his article with a quote from an old timer on seeing the Ferrari "What the hell's that? I thought all that crap was supposed to be consigned to history with the new regs."

You're using this as an anti-Ferrari dig, not a dig at potential rule- breaking. Otherwise, you'd be picking up on all the other examples of things that we thought we wouldn't be seeing anymore. Extra bits on Renault's end-plates look like flick-ups that should be banned. Similarly, there are shark-fins, and Toyota have something similar to Ferrari's mirror-winglets, but they are far more obvious.

Even McLaren are not exempt from this (and you really should've looked before you started ranting). There appear to be little aero parts on their wheel-covers and I'm sure that those shouldn't be legal as they could disturb the airflow, just like anything else you might glue on to a car.

Pushing the limits of the rules is perfectly fine, as long as the finished product doesn't over-step the line. Since none of the cars have been declared as final, there really is no issue here.

[bud]

Even McLaren are not exempt from this (and you really should've looked before you started ranting). There appear to be little aero parts on their wheel-covers and I'm sure that those shouldn't be legal as they could disturb the airflow, just like anything else you might glue on to a car.

actually the extended rim disc planes are used during testing to gather data. they were first introduced in 2007 so dont get your knickers in a twist

[FerrariFan63]

actually the extended rim disc planes are used during testing to gather data. they were first introduced in 2007 so dont get your knickers in a twist

Denthúl isn't getting any knickers in a twist. That's the whole point of the post. Everyone except it seems a few Ferrari bashers realise that testing is testing and cars don't need to be "legal" for testing.

[bud]

If you look at the pics, there are lots of hardware fittings around this portion of the car, which leads one to believe that they can swap things out easily.

31757_F2009_26.jpg

Where did you read Costa say that Tex?

as for the pic, the exhaust housing goes all the way down the side as you can see, theres no add on that can go on there. To fix this they will need a new exhaust cover or a new exhaust. nothing really innovative that can be done down there according to the regs.

Denthúl isn't getting any knickers in a twist. That's the whole point of the post. Everyone except it seems a few Ferrari bashers realise that testing is testing and cars don't need to be "legal" for testing.

Look we all get what youre trumpeting out though you quite arrogantly like to think otherwise, but McLaren didnt stick them on their car for the launch and say hey this is our interpretations of the 09 regs did they!
your problem is we are discussing an aspect of the car launches and you see this as bashing Ferrari.
far as i can tell there has been no bashing just discussing, you question me ever so slightly about what Forums are for, when are you sure you even know yourself?

[racechick]

I seriously doubt it is an oversight with the exhuast I just wish we knew the reasoning behind it.

Pushing limits as they know the other teams are keen for unity and will possibley not question it. Same as the winglet on the ferrari in front of the sidepods. That goes against the concensus agreed by the teams to get rid of apendiges but its not been questioned. Wonder what else they've slipped through.

Pushing the limits is what Formula One is about. Innovation does not come from stopping when it looks like you've gone as far as you can. Every team should be trying to rest right on the lines of legality. If they're not, they aren't competitive enough. There are a lot of things that, to me, are questionable but if there wasn't a high chance that they were legal, then they would not be on the cars.

As long as they are legal and conforming when the season officially starts who cares?

Quite a few people, it would seem from this thread.

I dont care what they do before the season starts but the worry is that they will continue when the season starts. Look at the rear view of the ferrari that tex posted. Those mirrors are postd on vertical vanes , the sort of thing that was not supposed to be on the cars this season, the sort of thing that causes air turbulence in the cars vwake. And there they are on the ferrari bold as brass, "a feature that clearly gets around a commonly agreed intent" The quotes are from a Mark Hughes article in this weeks autosport. So what do the teams do? complain that this is not what was agreed or let it go as harmony amongst the teams is of greater importance. Geez why cant Ferrari play by the rules once in a while!!

Mark Hughes started his article with a quote from an old timer on seeing the Ferrari "What the hell's that? I thought all that crap was supposed to be consigned to history with the new regs."

You're using this as an anti-Ferrari dig, not a dig at potential rule- breaking. Otherwise, you'd be picking up on all the other examples of things that we thought we wouldn't be seeing anymore. Extra bits on Renault's end-plates look like flick-ups that should be banned. Similarly, there are shark-fins, and Toyota have something similar to Ferrari's mirror-winglets, but they are far more obvious.

Even McLaren are not exempt from this (and you really should've looked before you started ranting). There appear to be little aero parts on their wheel-covers and I'm sure that those shouldn't be legal as they could disturb the airflow, just like anything else you might glue on to a car.

Pushing the limits of the rules is perfectly fine, as long as the finished product doesn't over-step the line. Since none of the cars have been declared as final, there really is no issue here.

Firstly-Yes pushing limits is what F1 is all about-limits of technology not limits set as standards for whatever reason(safety, money etc) . If there were no regulations then it would be absolutely fine to push limits wherever you wanted but it seems a shame that the teams have just drawn up their own regulations only to have a team instantly transgress its own set standards.
Secondly-Yes I picked only on Ferrari and that is because it is the most lkely team to challenge Lewis' McLaren and I would prefer it to do so within the teams agreed regulations. If Toyota or Renauly look like challenging then I will become more concened with any transgressions of theirs.

Im not uphoding limits on technology here, Im all for flat out development but comon, the teams have set regs!!!

[Denthúl]

I seriously doubt it is an oversight with the exhuast I just wish we knew the reasoning behind it.

Pushing limits as they know the other teams are keen for unity and will possibley not question it. Same as the winglet on the ferrari in front of the sidepods. That goes against the concensus agreed by the teams to get rid of apendiges but its not been questioned. Wonder what else they've slipped through.

Pushing the limits is what Formula One is about. Innovation does not come from stopping when it looks like you've gone as far as you can. Every team should be trying to rest right on the lines of legality. If they're not, they aren't competitive enough. There are a lot of things that, to me, are questionable but if there wasn't a high chance that they were legal, then they would not be on the cars.

As long as they are legal and conforming when the season officially starts who cares?

Quite a few people, it would seem from this thread.

I dont care what they do before the season starts but the worry is that they will continue when the season starts. Look at the rear view of the ferrari that tex posted. Those mirrors are postd on vertical vanes , the sort of thing that was not supposed to be on the cars this season, the sort of thing that causes air turbulence in the cars vwake. And there they are on the ferrari bold as brass, "a feature that clearly gets around a commonly agreed intent" The quotes are from a Mark Hughes article in this weeks autosport. So what do the teams do? complain that this is not what was agreed or let it go as harmony amongst the teams is of greater importance. Geez why cant Ferrari play by the rules once in a while!!

Mark Hughes started his article with a quote from an old timer on seeing the Ferrari "What the hell's that? I thought all that crap was supposed to be consigned to history with the new regs."

You're using this as an anti-Ferrari dig, not a dig at potential rule- breaking. Otherwise, you'd be picking up on all the other examples of things that we thought we wouldn't be seeing anymore. Extra bits on Renault's end-plates look like flick-ups that should be banned. Similarly, there are shark-fins, and Toyota have something similar to Ferrari's mirror-winglets, but they are far more obvious.

Even McLaren are not exempt from this (and you really should've looked before you started ranting). There appear to be little aero parts on their wheel-covers and I'm sure that those shouldn't be legal as they could disturb the airflow, just like anything else you might glue on to a car.

Pushing the limits of the rules is perfectly fine, as long as the finished product doesn't over-step the line. Since none of the cars have been declared as final, there really is no issue here.

Firstly-Yes pushing limits is what F1 is all about-limits of technology not limits set as standards for whatever reason(safety, money etc) . If there were no regulations then it would be absolutely fine to push limits wherever you wanted but it seems a shame that the teams have just drawn up their own regulations only to have a team instantly transgress its own set standards.
Secondly-Yes I picked only on Ferrari and that is because it is the most lkely team to challenge Lewis' McLaren and I would prefer it to do so within the teams agreed regulations. If Toyota or Renauly look like challenging then I will become more concened with any transgressions of theirs.

Im not uphoding limits on technology here, Im all for flat out development but comon, the teams have set regs!!!

Pushing the limits of the regulations is the only way to really push the limits of technology. As long as you don't cross the line, there is no problem. It's testing at the moment - teams will, of course, be trying to see what they can get away with and what they can't get away with. If you want cars to be 100% legal from the start, then you're going to encounter numerous issues which will cause more problems down the line. If what you've got on the car is deemed to be within regulations come March, then there is no problem with it.

[Matkins]

Ok so Ferrari, Renault and Toyota are probably just testing parts that they're not actually going to use come first race weekend... Why? What good is that?