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[sagi58]

This is not Ferrari where 1 family or 1 guy can run around employing Italians only

This is deliberately and patently not true...

Apparently, the truth is boring and doesn't make big, splashy headlines!

but on,y when it's one's own team that's being thruthed though.

How did THIS thread turn into an argument?

This thread turned into an argument because some members can't resist taking pot shots at drivers/teams they don't support!

[sagi58]

...The key point you're probably missing is the management structure at Ferrari vs Merc. Ferrari does have a head honcho, that old Luca dude who has a hell of a lot of power to do what he wants with the team...

Ultimately "one" person needs/should take responsibility. Not everyone has the balls to do that!!

...Strong rumours during the ending of Todt's era about wanting an Italian TP and ignoring another brilliant non-Italian guy's interest for the job is a big clue. Further clue being that same non-Italian guy leaving the team and not on good terms right before Domenicalli was announced as TP...

As I just posted, it would seem that Domenicali had a lot of experience within Ferrari's day-to-day workings and it would seem that it was a natural progression/calculated risk for him to take over from Brawn, when he decided to go fishing!!

...At Merc, it's not just Merc they're managed by Daimler. We have a lot of board members (non Germans included) who decide how much they get to loosen their purse strings for the race team. It's a different environment, which is why 1 man's vision/greed/bias/whatever you like will not significantly influence how the race team is run...

You might like to consider the old adage that too many chefs spoil the broth! It's a different philosophy and there is nothing wrong with either. It ends up being a choice. What is the problem with respecting either/both?

...The style of management in these two teams is completely different and as an avid Ferrari fan you'd get what Cookin originally meant, which was not just 'a lot of words' what do you want, pics or soundbites? lol

Oh, there is no problem is "getting" what either of you meant: to denigrate Ferrari and their philosophy. I believe it would be best for all members of the forum, if both of you just accepted that it's a different place/philosophy/modus operandi and simply/respectfully stop taking the pot shots, just because you don't agree with it. Neither philosophy is wrong, neither is better; but, each is best for the team/drivers the philosophy is in place for.

I know I try to; but, it's not easy being drawn into the same old circular arguments when the opinions are repeated ad naseum!!

[Hammer278]

...The key point you're probably missing is the management structure at Ferrari vs Merc. Ferrari does have a head honcho, that old Luca dude who has a hell of a lot of power to do what he wants with the team...

Ultimately "one" person needs/should take responsibility. Not everyone has the balls to do that!!

Lol....right. If you think every company which has 1 clear leader means that leader has some balls and it isn't simply a choice of management structure, all power to you.

...Strong rumours during the ending of Todt's era about wanting an Italian TP and ignoring another brilliant non-Italian guy's interest for the job is a big clue. Further clue being that same non-Italian guy leaving the team and not on good terms right before Domenicalli was announced as TP...

As I just posted, it would seem that Domenicali had a lot of experience within Ferrari's day-to-day workings and it would seem that it was a natural progression/calculated risk for him to take over from Brawn, when he decided to go fishing!!

Brawn's first choice was clear - to take over Todt's role and he wasn't private about that. Who knew better the inner workings during that 5 year success period, some Italian guy working back in an office or the guy at the pitwall making the genius calls and following his genius Frenchman bosses' leadership on a daily basis?

...At Merc, it's not just Merc they're managed by Daimler. We have a lot of board members (non Germans included) who decide how much they get to loosen their purse strings for the race team. It's a different environment, which is why 1 man's vision/greed/bias/whatever you like will not significantly influence how the race team is run...

You might like to consider the old adage that too many chefs spoil the broth! It's a different philosophy and there is nothing wrong with either. It ends up being a choice. What is the problem with respecting either/both?

Your opinion of 'too many chefs' might be Merc's perspective of 'just the right number of pro's in one place'. Personally, I'd respect Merc's philosophy and decision anyday....seeing as they're a multinational conglomerate and all. I respect a structure which I think works better in a particular area.

...The style of management in these two teams is completely different and as an avid Ferrari fan you'd get what Cookin originally meant, which was not just 'a lot of words' what do you want, pics or soundbites? lol

Oh, there is no problem is "getting" what either of you meant: to denigrate Ferrari and their philosophy. I believe it would be best for all members of the forum, if both of you just accepted that it's a different place/philosophy/modus operandi and simply/respectfully stop taking the pot shots, just because you don't agree with it. Neither philosophy is wrong, neither is better; but, each is best for the team/drivers the philosophy is in place for.

What you see as 'pot shots' is simply me giving my opinion on a team/structure/driver. This is a forum, and this isn't a support thread, and I'm entitled to express myself when I please, in a way I please. If certain sensitive fans of certain teams want to cry about it, they can cry alone and not resort to telling me how to post, what I want to post.

[CookinFlat6]

To satisfy my own curiousity, I did search for articles/websites that mentioned this "silent" mandate of which you speak,
only to come up empty. Rumours are oftentimes just that: empty of truth.

I have a theory: last summer I watched FIAT boss Luca de Montezemolo interviewed by Charlie Rose on PBS, and heard Luca describe how he wanted to make Ferrari “more Italian.” As you look down the team roster now, you no longer see the British, German, French, South African and other names that were there when Ferrari was an effective force. Coincidence? I don’t mean to sound chauvinistic, but after the team’s pit disasters of 2008 followed by their performance thus far in 2009, Ferrari might do well to look back on the techniques that worked so well under the regime of Jean Todt, Ross Brawn and even (gasp!) Nigel Stepney, in the championship seasons past.

[sagi58]

It's about respect, eh? Or rather, a lack thereof.
That may be how you conduct your life; but, don't
assume that everyone is in agreement so much as
some of us refuse to be disrespectful of others.

[CookinFlat6]

It's about respect, eh? Or rather, a lack thereof.
That may be how you conduct your life; but, don't
assume that everyone is in agreement so much as
some of us refuse to be disrespectful of others.

To be fair, this started with a Ferrari fan suggesting that Merc could favour Nico as he would be the first German to win in a German team.
And it was gently pointed out that the Merc and Ferrari corporate management structures are diiferent and that creating a mandate to favour one driver and fix the results would work so well at Merc whereas the same thing ofcourse is very familiar at Ferrari. Just like it would be possible for Montezemolo to run around employing Italians only as he has been quoted as saying he wanted to do.

Just wondering who it was that forgot in the first place that the 2 organisations are different and so what? One is not necessarily better than the other. Its only results on track that matter.

So it would be good for supporters of all teams to remember that and bring some respect as you have suggested.

When suggesting Lewis might not be preferred by Merc to win the WDC is hardly respectful to Lewis or Merc fans. When suggesting that Ron Dennis only gave Lewis a seat for publicity is hardly respectful. When suggesting that Lewis beat the 2x WDC Alonso because of 'hidden reasons' is hardly respectful. When claiming that Lewis moved to Merc for money and other 'hidden reasons' is hardly respect

Yup its all about respect

[Jabberwocky]

Here is a non silent mandate, lets have more interesting facts and less bickering!

[sagi58]

Max Chilton in India 2013 matched with Tiago Monteiro’s rookie record of finishing the first 16 GPs.

[sagi58]

Formula 1 car only has two pedals which are shaped to fit drivers’ feet.

[sagi58]

Many know of Ayrton Senna’s great mastery of driving Formula 1 cars extremely well and flamboyantly in the wet.

The truth was that Ayrton was terrible in the rain when he was younger. He would win every competition or race in the dry, but when it rained, he was completely miserable at it.

Absolutely fed up with his results in the rain, Ayrton would sit by his local karting circuit, just waiting for it to rain. He’d spend hours in the wet, often coming home drenched and soaking wet. While every other driver sought shelter in the wet, Ayrton was the first to get out there and drive.

[sagi58]

Before Red Bull sent Gill Jones at Bahrain Grand Prix 2013
to accept Constructors’ trophy

,

there happened to be a woman to appear on the podium already.
It was Ginny Williams (Sir Frank Williams’ wife) in 1986 -



just 4 months after Friank’s accident when Nigel Mansell and
Nelson Piquet scored double at British Grand Prix.

[sagi58]

Emerson Fittipaldi was the only driver who refused to start at 1975 Spanish Grand Prix.



Right from the start, the drivers who were members of the Grand Prix Drivers Association
were furious that the barriers were not bolted together properly. Thus, they went on strike.
Most of the sport’s major players refused to take part in practice.

Track staff worked overnight to fix the barriers, and to make sure everything would be fixed
in time for qualifying on Saturday, some of the teams sent out mechanics to help. The drivers,
though, still were not convinced, but the race organizers threatened legal action if no race was
run so they called off the strike.

The defending World Champion Emerson, however, was still furious. He did the minimum three
laps, but at a very slow pace, then pulled into the pits. The next morning, Fittipaldi announced
he would not race, and went back home.

(Also during race day morning, Ken Tyrrell went out onto the circuit with his own spanner to make
sure the barriers were how they should be.)

Few laps to go, the rear wing on Stommelen’s Embassy Hill broke, sending him into the barrier,
ironically at the point that his own mechanics had worked on. He bounced off it and back into
the road, hitting the barrier across the way, and flying over it.



Five spectators were killed by Stommelen’s flying car with the driver suffering a broken leg,
a broken wrist and two cracked ribs.

It is remembered as one of the most controversial and tragic race weekends in the sport’s
history. It was also the race in which Lella Lombardi became the first and only woman to score
points towards the World Championship.

[darwin dali]

PointS? She got half a point (would have been 1 point if the race had finished regularly).

[sagi58]

At least she scored!!
Take a look at all the ""guys"" who didn't!!

1975 Spanish Grand Prix

[sagi58]

The 1978 Swedish Grand Prix is remembered for the Brabham BT46B ‘Fan Car’.
It had rubber skirts all round and a massive fan in the middle that literally sucked
the car to the floor, giving it amazing grip. It wiped the floor with the opposition,
but the FIA banned it after just one race.