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[AKR]

2 Italian police come up and for no reason just start attacking them one ended up with broken rib the other knocked unconsious.

Unfortunitly the police have a very hard job to do and are always at risk. The police need to restore order during those brawls by hooligans and many a time the police don't know who are the starters of the brawl. They will see a potential threat and act. Unfortunitly for your friends, they were at the wrong place at the wrong time.

[EwanM]

I mean the itallians are worse when it comes to football violence.

No they are not. The English are the worst in the world when it comes to football violence. Heysel 1985 and that other incident that happened a few years later in the EPL against Liverpool. And many a time when Italian and English clubs play in Italy, especially Manchester United and Liverpool, the Italian police have their work cut out trying to control thr English hooligans who think they can come into my country and simply trash the place at their own will.

I think England and Italy both have problems with football hooliganism. At club level, hooliganism has been dealt with pretty well in England. At international level, things are better than they were, but far from perfect. Italian international fans are not too bad, but at club level, some of what goes on during matches is frightening - and I say that from my own experience.

Panic on the streets of London, Panic on the streets of Birmingham. I wonder to myself...

[AKR]

what I dislike about a lot of them (but not all because not all are the same) is that when they come to Italy for example, the expect us to know English. I mean make an attempt to speak the language of the country. When I go to England I speak English so why is it that they should be any different to anyone else?

Yeah tell that to all the immigrants that move to Australia an ENGLISH speaking nation who do not learn English! now thats way worse than just a tourist.
I for one wouldnt learn a language if i was passing through for 3 weeks.

A lot of them do speak English. They just speak their own language between themselves which is ok. For example Italians speak Italian with Italians, Greeks Greek with Greeks, Croatians Croatian with Croatians etc, etc, etc. But when they go to a place and need to speak with someone they have no idea what background they are from, English is always spoken and Croatian for example if it is a Croatian in this example would not be what the person speaking expects the other person to know but English instead. So English is spoken without any hesitation.

[AKR]

what I dislike about a lot of them (but not all because not all are the same) is that when they come to Italy for example, the expect us to know English. I mean make an attempt to speak the language of the country. When I go to England I speak English so why is it that they should be any different to anyone else?

Yeah tell that to all the immigrants that move to Australia an ENGLISH speaking nation who do not learn English! now thats way worse than just a tourist.
I for one wouldnt learn a language if i was passing through for 3 weeks.

I'm not saying i'd learn the language.

just the basics.

i know what AKR means tho theres the sterotypical english biggot that goes abroad and acts as if everyone should understand him, and is supprised and disgusted when they don't

That said the french are just as bad because they often want to just speak french futhermore its caused accidents in air traffic control because of there unwillingness to understand english instructions or the fact they only can see their side of the picture not everything else thats said on comms

You have the right idea. Agreed. You can't learn a whole language just to go for a simple holiday. Just learn the basics and believe it or not people like me who appear arrogant will with pleasure speak to you back in English.

With aviation and things where precise communication is needed, then a universal language needs to be chosen. That is English but the French do not like it and insist it should be French, thus the problem. If you chose French the English and Americans wont like it and therefore you can't really have a solution. Unless you chose Esperanto or something, but I cant see that happening anytime soon as well.

[Jabberwocky]

That said the french are just as bad because they often want to just speak french futhermore its caused accidents in air traffic control because of there unwillingness to understand english instructions or the fact they only can see their side of the picture not everything else thats said on comms

I am sure it is part of international Air Law that all Air Traffic Communication is in English, I think it is in the CAP670 but would not bet my life on that

[bud]

A lot of them do speak English. They just speak their own language between themselves which is ok. For example Italians speak Italian with Italians, Greeks Greek with Greeks, Croatians Croatian with Croatians etc, etc, etc. But when they go to a place and need to speak with someone they have no idea what background they are from, English is always spoken and Croatian for example if it is a Croatian in this example would not be what the person speaking expects the other person to know but English instead. So English is spoken without any hesitation.

in my line of work i have to deal and try and communicate and fathom gibberish with people who barely know English. and they moved here to live.... thats one thing with this country thuts duck. multi culturalism doesnt work!

That said the french are just as bad because they often want to just speak french futhermore its caused accidents in air traffic control because of there unwillingness to understand english instructions or the fact they only can see their side of the picture not everything else thats said on comms

I am sure it is part of international Air Law that all Air Traffic Communication is in English, I think it is in the CAP670 but would not bet my life on that

English is the international language for air traffic communication. But hey the French are twats when it comes to s*** like that, the reason most of the world is left hand drive is because of the French stubbornness

[AKR]

in my line of work i have to deal and try and communicate and fathom gibberish with people who barely know English. and they moved here to live.... thats one thing with this country thuts duck. multi culturalism doesnt work!

Most of the Italians, Greeks, Croatians, Chinese, Lebanese etc people that came to Australia couldn't speak English when the came to live but all learnt it because they had to and had no problems in accepting this matter. Yes they all speak with accents and many can't read English, but they all speak it and have learnt to speak it. Their sons and daughters all speak English and although a lot of them speak the parents language to the parents they mostly all speak English among themselves. Most of the immigrants to Australia today come with high levels of skills etc and alredy read, write, speak English. The ones that do not will do as all other immigrants have done before them and learn at least to speak broken English if they intend to get around. That is a fact as it has been already proven with past immigration. You Bud talk how the European mainlanders like myself are alledgedly anti English, but you appear to be anti multicultural and anti ethnic. Australia is built on multicultirism and it gives Australia it's identy and it works fine and everyone speaks English. Fact.

English is the international language for air traffic communication. But hey the French are twats when it comes to s*** like that, the reason most of the world is left hand drive is because of the French stubbornness

The French drive on the correct side of the road as do maniland Europe, the United States and very mych the whole world. Australia only drives on the "wrong side" of the road because of Britain. Had Australia gotten it's independence 100 years ago or before people had cars, Australians like Americans would be driving on the correct side of the road. That as well is a fact.

[bud]

Multicultural does not work. everyone is segregated and live and associate with their own. They dont even try and intergrate with the Australian way of life. yet if i went to live in some other countries with which they have come from i would be EXPECTED to adopt their customs their religion etc etc. Australia is not one nation under one flag.


AKR go look up the reasons why nations chose left hand drive before you go talking like you know something.....

[AKR]

Multicultural does not work. everyone is segregated and live and associate with their own. They dont even try and intergrate with the Australian way of life. yet if i went to live in some other countries with which they have come from i would be EXPECTED to adopt their customs their religion etc etc. Australia is not one nation under one flag.

People from Italian backgrounds have Greek friends and Croatian friends and Turkish friends and Aussie friends etc, etc, etc. You have no idea what you are talking about. Italians marry Greeks, Italians marry Aussies, Macedonians marry Croats, Lebanese marry Italians etc, etc, etc. You're so full of it that it is unbeliable. Tell me what I am saying is untrue and it means you have absoutetly no idea. Afterall don't you have Italian friends Bud?

AKR go look up the reasons why nations chose left hand drive before you go talking like you know something.....

Ok then Mr Know it all, educate me on the reasons why countries choose left hand drive. I know Australia chose Left Hand Drive because of Britain. Fact.

[bud]

ahhh AKR youre so niave youre basing your facts on your own little circle of friends. And youre only talking about people from a European background. think broader! You have no idea if you think everyone speaks English and is intergrated into Australia without any troubles


And here you go...

History and origin

About a quarter of the world drives on the left, and the countries that do are mostly old British colonies. This strange quirk perplexes the rest of the world; but there is a perfectly good reason.

In the past, almost everybody travelled on the left side of the road because that was the most sensible option for feudal, violent societies. Since most people are right-handed, swordsmen preferred to keep to the left in order to have their right arm nearer to an opponent and their scabbard further from him. Moreover, it reduced the chance of the scabbard (worn on the left) hitting other people.

Furthermore, a right-handed person finds it easier to mount a horse from the left side of the horse, and it would be very difficult to do otherwise if wearing a sword (which would be worn on the left). It is safer to mount and dismount towards the side of the road, rather than in the middle of traffic, so if one mounts on the left, then the horse should be ridden on the left side of the road.

In the late 1700s, however, teamsters in France and the United States began hauling farm products in big wagons pulled by several pairs of horses. These wagons had no driver's seat; instead the driver sat on the left rear horse, so he could keep his right arm free to lash the team. Since he was sitting on the left, he naturally wanted everybody to pass on the left so he could look down and make sure he kept clear of the oncoming wagon’s wheels. Therefore he kept to the right side of the road.

In addition, the French Revolution of 1789 gave a huge impetus to right-hand travel in Europe. The fact is, before the Revolution, the aristocracy travelled on the left of the road, forcing the peasantry over to the right, but after the storming of the Bastille and the subsequent events, aristocrats preferred to keep a low profile and joined the peasants on the right. An official keep-right rule was introduced in Paris in 1794, more or less parallel to Denmark, where driving on the right had been made compulsory in 1793.

Later, Napoleon's conquests spread the new rightism to the Low Countries (Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg), Switzerland, Germany, Poland, Russia and many parts of Spain and Italy. The states that had resisted Napoleon kept left – Britain, the Austro-Hungarian Empire and Portugal. This European division, between the left- and right-hand nations would remain fixed for more than 100 years, until after the First World War.

Although left-driving Sweden ceded Finland to right-driving Russia after the Russo-Swedish War (1808-1809), Swedish law – including traffic regulations – remained valid in Finland for another 50 years. It wasn’t until 1858 that an Imperial Russian decree made Finland swap sides.

The trend among nations over the years has been toward driving on the right, but Britain has done its best to stave off global homogenisation. With the expansion of travel and road building in the 1800s, traffic regulations were made in every country. Left-hand driving was made mandatory in Britain in 1835. Countries which were part of the British Empire followed suit. This is why to this very day, India, Australasia and the former British colonies in Africa go left. An exception to the rule, however, is Egypt, which had been conquered by Napoleon before becoming a British dependency.

Although Japan was never part of the British Empire, its traffic also goes to the left. Although the origin of this habit goes back to the Edo period (1603-1867) when Samurai ruled the country, it wasn’t until 1872 that this unwritten rule became more or less official. That was the year when Japan’s first railway was introduced, built with technical aid from the British. Gradually, a massive network of railways and tram tracks was built, and of course all trains and trams drove on the left-hand side. Still, it took another half century till in 1924 left-side driving was clearly written in a law.

When the Dutch arrived in Indonesia in 1596, they brought along their habit of driving on the left. It wasn't until Napoleon conquered the Netherlands that the Dutch started driving on the right. Most of their colonies, however, remained on the left as did Indonesia and Suriname.

In the early years of English colonisation of North America, English driving customs were followed and the colonies drove on the left. After gaining independence from England, however, they were anxious to cast off all remaining links with their British colonial past and gradually changed to right-hand driving. (Incidentally, the influence of other European countries’ nationals should not be underestimated.) The first law requiring drivers to keep right was passed in Pennsylvania in 1792, and similar laws were passed in New York in 1804 and New Jersey in 1813.

Despite the developments in the US, some parts of Canada continued to drive on the left until shortly after the Second World War. The territory controlled by the French (from Quebec to Louisiana) drove on the right, but the territory occupied by the English (British Columbia, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island and Newfoundland) kept left. British Columbia and the Atlantic provinces switched to the right in the 1920s in order to conform with the rest of Canada and the USA. Newfoundland drove on the left until 1947, and joined Canada in 1949.

In Europe, the remaining left-driving countries switched one by one to driving on the right. Portugal changed in 1920s. The change took place on the same day in the whole country, including the colonies. Territories, however, which bordered other left-driving countries were exempted. That is why Macau, Goa (now part of India) and Portuguese East Africa kept the old system. East Timor, which borders left-driving Indonesia, did change to the right though, but left-hand traffic was reintroduced by the Indonesians in 1975.

In Italy the practice of driving on the right first began in the late 1890s. The first Italian Highway Code, issued on the 30th of June 1912, stated that all vehicles had to drive on the right. Cities with a tram network, however, could retain left-hand driving if they placed warning signs at their city borders. The 1923 decree is a bit stricter, but Rome and the northern cities of Milan, Turin and Genoa could still keep left until further orders from the Ministry of Public Works. By the mid-1920s, right-hand driving became finally standard throughout the country. Rome made the change on the 1 of March 1925 and Milan on the 3rd of August 1926.

Up till the 1930s Spain lacked national traffic regulations. Some parts of the country drove on the right (e.g. Barcelona) and other parts drove on the left (e.g. Madrid). On the 1st of October 1924 Madrid switched to driving on the right.

The break-up of the Austro-Hungarian Empire caused no change: Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia and Hungary continued to drive on the left. Austria itself was something of a curiosity. Half the country drove on the left and half on the right. The dividing line was precisely the area affected by Napoleon's conquests in 1805.

When Germany annexed Austria in 1938, Hitler ordered that the traffic should change from the left to the right side of the road, overnight. The change threw the driving public into turmoil, because motorists were unable to see most road signs. In Vienna it proved impossible to change the trams overnight, so while all other traffic took to the right-hand side of the road, the trams continued to run on the left for several weeks. Czechoslovakia and Hungary, one of the last states on the mainland of Europe to keep left, changed to the right after being invaded by Germany in 1939.

Meanwhile, the power of the right kept growing steadily. American cars were designed to be driven on the right by locating the drivers' controls on the vehicle's left side. With the mass production of reliable and economical cars in the United States, initial exports used the same design, and out of necessity many countries changed their rule of the road.

Gibraltar changed to right-hand traffic in 1929 and China in 1946. Korea now drives right, but only because it passed directly from Japanese colonial rule to American and Russian influence at the end of the Second World War. Pakistan also considered changing to the right in the 1960s, but ultimately decided not to do it. The main argument against the shift was that camel trains often drove through the night while their drivers were dozing. The difficulty in teaching old camels new tricks was decisive in forcing Pakistan to reject the change. Nigeria, a former British colony, had traditionally been driving on the left with British imported right-hand-drive cars, but when it gained independence, it tried to throw off its colonial past as quick as possible and shifted to driving on the right.

After the Second World War, left-driving Sweden, the odd one out in mainland Europe, felt increasing pressure to change sides in order to conform with the rest of the continent. The problem was that all their neighbours already drove on the right side and since there are a lot of small roads without border guards leading into Norway and Finland, one had to remember in which country one was.

In 1955, the Swedish government held a referendum on the introduction of right-hand driving. Although no less than 82.9% voted “no” to the plebiscite, the Swedish parliament passed a law on the conversion to right-hand driving in 1963. Finally, the change took place on Sunday, the 3rd of September 1967, at 5 o’clock in the morning.

All traffic with private motor-driven vehicles was prohibited four hours before and one hour after the conversion, in order to be able to rearrange all traffic signs. Even the army was called in to help. Also a very low speed limit was applied, which was raised in a number of steps. The whole process took about a month. After Sweden's successful changeover, Iceland changed the following year, in 1968.

In the 1960s, Great Britain also considered changing, but the country’s conservative powers did everything they could to nip the proposal in the bud. Furthermore, the fact that it would cost billions of pounds to change everything round wasn’t much of an incentive… Eventually, Britain dropped the idea. Today, only four European countries still drive on the left: the United Kingdom, Ireland, Cyprus and Malta.

[shani182]

Bud does have a point, but it is a minority who refuse to integrate into Australian society.

I for one, happily accept Aussie customs and traditions, but maybe that's due to the fact that I've lived here since I was three.
But even my parents have accepted Aussie culture, and they moved here in their 20s-30s.
But then again, my dad has been speaking English all of his life, and my mum as well.


But that's just my family.

Some neighbours refuse to talk to anyone around this area, and only mix with people sharing the same culture.

Multiculturalism is a part of Australia's identity, and I think it's fantastic.
But I really think that people need to adopt some of the values and learn english.

[AKR]

ahhh AKR youre so niave youre basing your facts on your own little circle of friends. And youre only talking about people from a European background. think broader! You have no idea if you think everyone speaks English and is intergrated into Australia without any troubles

The Chinese, Vietmanese and Indian people I know and have met all speak English. The Indians a whole lot better than me (Accent wise that is). Who are these people that don't speak it then? A tiny minority group perhaps? Like maybe Sudnese or something? There are not too many around and if they want to get around in life and live in Australia they will have to learn English like all the other immigrants did. I went to Japan not long ago and hardly no one knows English. If you want to live there you would have to learn at least basic Japanese. When I eventually go there to live, I'll do exactly that. (Well in my case learn more than basic). No matter where in the world you live, you have to learn the language at least to a basic level to get around. Australia is no different so all these non English speakers will eventually have to learn the language, like it or not.

Oh and by the way thanks for the driving on the left essay. I knew about the sword thing already. But the rest was good to know. But regardless I like the right side of the road better simply because it is the way in mainland Europe.

[bud]

Again AKR youre niave if you think everyone knows English that migrated here. Talking the language and intergrating into society are a different thing all together. We now have suburbs where there is only one ethnic group isolated where if an Australian walked through would feel uneasy in his own country. We have ethnic gangs with the sudanese being the newest problem we had w***er gang violence in the main city street of Adelaide in broad day light where one kid was stabbed to death WTF? not even the Viatnamese or Leb gangs would be that stupid! but they are just as bad.

Oh and the car thing being the way in mainland Europe is all because of Napoleon and not because it makes sense....

[Gaz]

Again AKR youre niave if you think everyone knows English that migrated here. Talking the language and intergrating into society are a different thing all together. We now have suburbs where there is only one ethnic group isolated where if an Australian walked through would feel uneasy in his own country. We have ethnic gangs with the sudanese being the newest problem we had w***er gang violence in the main city street of Adelaide in broad day light where one kid was stabbed to death WTF? not even the Viatnamese or Leb gangs would be that stupid! but they are just as bad.

Oh and the car thing being the way in mainland Europe is all because of Napoleon and not because it makes sense....

you a cop then?

same thing in england to be fair parts of manchester. Don't bother me as long as there not anti-soicial but some are

[Jabberwocky]

Bud your road side info is very good