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[overboost]

How much love does STR have

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They were last with about 200 votes just behind Marussia.

[CookinFlat6]

I've no idea what it is you're saying or what that even means?

I'm comparing a black person being the first facing a greater difficulty than a white person. When was the last time pictures of watermelons in the White House lawn were sent around as "unofficial" Christmas cards? Lewis Hamilton is the first black F1 driver, because of that he has encountered difficulties and has had roadblocks placed before him that would not have been placed before him were he to be a white guy. It's just how it is and to deny it is in fact an unspoken declaration that you're either ignorant of history or have a racist sentiment.

But I'm done with the discussion, as there is no end with you, so feel free to have the last word so we can get the thread back on topic.

I wanted to point out that you are comparing a Black person in the 1950s and the challenges
he faced with a Black person more than 60 years later. I know enough about history to know
that's not possible, considering the differences in eras and values that have occurred since
Jackie Robinson first swung a bat.

Please note, I'm not saying that racism doesn't exist; but, that everyone faces challenges in life.

As for Hamilton, he has encountered difficulties that may be attributed to his ethnicity; but, don't
he also had advantages that very few have (regardless of heritage) by being Ron Dennis' protege.
Advantages that opened doors and gave Hamilton the opportunity to be where he is today.

It would seem that Ron Dennis wasn't interested in the colour of his skin; but, he was interested in
developing Hamilton's talent.

So you see, NOT everyone is racist and NOT everyone has it in for Hamilton because he's not white!!

As for the watermelons on the White House lawn, you'll have to pardon me; but, whomever created
that piece of garbage should be charged with stupidity, compounded with a lack of morals. That's
not about the freedom of speech, which your country prides itself on, that's blatant racism and
should be addressed as such, by the proper authorities.

Interesting little speech sagi, but it seems to be at odds with what you said previously, I dont expect you to explain or argue, I was just seeing how quickly the php search function could produce on the least clues

I'm loving Lewis at Merc!!! I used to think ...what will I do if Lewis leaves McLaren?? I got to like McLaren. But when the time came it was easy!!! WANTED him to go, McLaren was not good for him...

Although I'm not Hamilton's greatest fan (that title seems to belong to you ), I have
to say that I completely, totally, and absolutely agree!! In fact, I've been known to be quite
cynical about Hamilton's relationship with Ron Dennis, seeing it as toxic. It always seemed to
to me as though Dennis wasn't interested in Hamilton in any sort of altruistic way, rather that
he supported Hamilton simply to make himself look like a genius. A Machiavelli!

So, I don't understand how Spygate cost him anything, let alone how that it showed his "bravery"! At the end of the day, if McLaren hadn't been guilty of obtaining that Ferrari document/information, there is NO way they'd have paid out that kind of money for anyone's "bravery"!

Rons bravery was first of all to give a shot to a black driver at a time when F1 teams, audiences, sponsors, stewards etc were, lets say, less diverse in scope.
But specifically the bravery was in allowing the rookie equality to challenge the WDC, which was fairly unique. Then the most bravery was shown when confronted by Alonsos blackmail attempts (it was claimed that Alonso asked the team to underfuel Lewis' car for example) and instead of yielding to black mail, didnt order Lewis to stand down, but called the Spaniards bluff and threw himself at the mercy of the FIA.
So the cost to Ron of allowing a rookie equal chances with a WDC was hard cash (he is a shareholder) as well as having to leave F1, and ofcourse the WCC
Finally its not if they had the documents or not, they had, but Alonso was making use of them and would not have turned informer if Lewis had been prevented from embarrassing him on track

We'll have to disagree on this point, too. It's obvious that McLaren and F1 realized, very quickly that Hamilton was a force to be reckoned with, that is not a point that is debatable. However, I do NOT believe for one moment that backing Hamilton instead of Alonso was actually it was an altruistic decision, albeit an understandable stance.

Look, I realize you won't appreciate this; but, it's my point of view that McLaren saw the opportunity for the "Greatest F1 Cinderella Story Ever" and were bound and determined to make it happen. Even if that meant upsetting their two-time WDC. After all, who cared about Alonso? He already had his titles. BUT, in Hamilton, McLaren had the opportunity of going down in the F1 history books as the FIRST team to back the FIRST Black driver who won his FIRST title in his FIRST year in F1!! Reads like a dream come true!!

I honestly don't fault any of the McLaren PR team who saw this as "the" golden opportunity it was. In fact, I will go on record as stating if they didn't, they really don't know Public Relations!!

Or maybe exploiting a chaps ""blackness"" is proof of NO RASCISM

[What's Burning?]

hard to keep a straight face right?

[CookinFlat6]

One simply can't pay for comedy gold like this anymore

It's the gift that keeps giving

[Hammer278]

[sagi58]

Yeah, well, he who laughs last, laughs best.

If you would have bothered to re-read what was copied and pasted, it would be apparent that I painstakingly and purposefully avoided making the suggestion that Ron Dennis' interest in Hamilton was racially motivated.

The Cinderella Story I was careful to portray was one of a young lad with a great talent that was given the opportunity to further develop that talent by one of the biggest name teams on the F1 grid, as well as being mentored by one of the best and most experienced TPs in F1. When the time was right, that same young lad debuted in a rookie season that will be talked about for years, because he almost won the WDC that very first year of F1 racing.

THAT is the fairy tale which I was very careful to portray.

That anyone could possibly decide that Ron Dennis had the motive to exploit Hamilton's ethnicity cannot be attributed to my own take on that season.

For the record, purposely misrepresenting what others say is not grounds for calling them a liar.

[CookinFlat6]

I didnt mean what I said

You did not understand what I meant

Two down, one to go!

just waiting for

I never said that at all, posting my quote doesnt mean I wrote it

that reminds me, wheres roth, or OB

[CookinFlat6]

Yeah, well, he who laughs last, laughs best.

That anyone could possibly decide that Ron Dennis had the motive to exploit Hamilton's ethnicity cannot be attributed to my own take on that season.

For the record, purposely misrepresenting what others say is not grounds for calling them a liar.

No ones saying anyone is saying anyone is rascist here. Some are just amazed at the self serving hypocrisy that says on one hand Ron was only interested in Lewis for 'selfish' reasons and on the other hand saying Ron was interested in helping Lewis for unselfish reasons unassociated with his colour and that this disproves the suggestion of another member that Lewis has faced challenges due to his colour
Gross hypocrisy is not lying, maybe just forgetting to tell the truth

It would seem that Ron Dennis wasn't interested in the colour of his skin; but, he was interested in
developing Hamilton's talent.

In fact, I've been known to be quite
cynical about Hamilton's relationship with Ron Dennis, seeing it as toxic. It always seemed to
to me as though Dennis wasn't interested in Hamilton in any sort of altruistic way, rather that
he supported Hamilton simply to make himself look like a genius. A Machiavelli!

[sagi58]

Look up the words "slander" and "libel", then figure out exactly what you're doing!

p.s. "harassment" might be another one you should know the definition for!

[Hammer278]

Look up the words "slander" and "libel", then figure out exactly what you're doing!

p.s. "harassment" might be another one you should know the definition for!

Bullsh!t. He quoted your post word for word and highlighted the sheer hypocrisy, there's no slander here so quit digging deeper still.

[myownalias]

Another thread derailed by the same few members, another thread that needs to be locked due to pointless bickering!

[racechick]

Thread unlocked to discuss 2015. Let's try to keep it on track and civil.

[What's Burning?]

[CookinFlat6]

The only predictions that present any type of challenge are
whether McLaren will beat Williams to second,
wether Lotus will beat only Ferrari or Ferrari and RBR
And how long before Seb declares Ferrari a seperate entity to himself

[overboost]

The outcome of 2015 is already locked in and known. Mercedes 2015 WCC, Hamilton 2015 WDC.

No predictions are required!