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[myownalias]

What is it with people branding McLaren drivers "lucky"? First it was Jenson in the early part of the year and now it's Lewis; both drivers have made their own luck including Lewis' dubious passing of the safety car in Valencia. I didn't see the Interview so I can't say too much about Horner's comments, but if he was suggesting that Jenson braked early on purpose; he is more of a fool than I thought he was; Jenson did brake early but that was because he read the conditions much better than Vettel!

I thought he said it was bone dry?

Just watched the BBC F1 Forum; heard what Jenson had to say; claiming it was bone dry and he braked the same as he had done for the previous 16 laps. If that is the case then it was still Vettel's mistake getting sucked into the slipstream and making a last minute avoiding manoeuvre which caused the incident! From watching the onboard footage from Vettel's car, it looks like it was starting to rain at the point of the incident!

[What's Burning?]

What is it with people branding McLaren drivers "lucky"? First it was Jenson in the early part of the year and now it's Lewis; both drivers have made their own luck including Lewis' dubious passing of the safety car in Valencia. I didn't see the Interview so I can't say too much about Horner's comments, but if he was suggesting that Jenson braked early on purpose; he is more of a fool than I thought he was; Jenson did brake early but that was because he read the conditions much better than Vettel!

I thought he said it was bone dry?

Just watched the BBC F1 Forum; heard what Jenson had to say; claiming it was bone dry and he braked the same as he had done for the previous 16 laps. If that is the case then it was still Vettel's mistake getting sucked into the slipstream and making a last minute avoiding manoeuvre which caused the incident! From watching the onboard footage from Vettel's car, it looks like it was starting to rain at the point of the incident!

According to Vettle's apology, he was trying to overtake, not trying to avoid Jenson's early, late or timely breaking.

First of all, I'm sorry,” Sebastian explained to reporters in the Spa paddock. “Obviously it wasn’t my intention to destroy his race or mine but I was close and I was faster than him.

“I tried to out-brake him on the outside but when I changed from the inside to the outside I lost the car under braking, on the bump, and I couldn't really control it anymore and unfortunately crashed into him

[kerc]

What is it with people branding McLaren drivers "lucky"? First it was Jenson in the early part of the year and now it's Lewis; both drivers have made their own luck including Lewis' dubious passing of the safety car in Valencia. I didn't see the Interview so I can't say too much about Horner's comments, but if he was suggesting that Jenson braked early on purpose; he is more of a fool than I thought he was; Jenson did brake early but that was because he read the conditions much better than Vettel!

I thought he said it was bone dry?

Just watched the BBC F1 Forum; heard what Jenson had to say; claiming it was bone dry and he braked the same as he had done for the previous 16 laps. If that is the case then it was still Vettel's mistake getting sucked into the slipstream and making a last minute avoiding manoeuvre which caused the incident! From watching the onboard footage from Vettel's car, it looks like it was starting to rain at the point of the incident!

According to Vettle's apology, he was trying to overtake, not trying to avoid Jenson's early, late or timely breaking.

First of all, I'm sorry,” Sebastian explained to reporters in the Spa paddock. “Obviously it wasn’t my intention to destroy his race or mine but I was close and I was faster than him.

“I tried to out-brake him on the outside but when I changed from the inside to the outside I lost the car under braking, on the bump, and I couldn't really control it anymore and unfortunately crashed into him

Funny to see the driver being open and honest, and his boss putting up all sorts of excuses.

Well said, Vettel, this is the kind of attitude that wins respect from others. And his penalty was totally unnecessary, this was a racing incident.

[myownalias]

I commend Vettel for accepting the blame for the incident; he got it wrong, plain and simple... I don't believe a single word that comes out of Horner's mouth! Horner's comments at Spa just reinforces my belief that Vettel is heavily favoured within the Red Bull team, he can do no-wrong even when he is blatantly in the wrong!

[stonemonkey]

I blame the team, i mean, you know what happens when parents let their kids drink too much red bull. They'll have to try filling his drink bottle with something else.

[Peng]

I just hope Horners pampering of Vettel doesn't go to his head.

Everyone gets it wrong now and again but when your getting told "no you did nothing wrong it was blah blah etc etc" it can have an affect after a while where you don't think your ever wrong.

I wish he had started somewhere like Williams and improved at his own pace instead of being thrown into it like this because i think there is a fine line between him becoming a great driver and person and turning into Alonso :p.

[bmwpower]

First, he is quick to defend Vettel and heavily hinting that Jenson "braked early" causing the crash!!????

And now he says this:

Red Bull team principal Christian Horner has ruled out the prospect of favouring Mark Webber over Sebastian Vettel in order to secure this year's drivers' title.

After crashing out of the Belgian Grand Prix, Vettel dropped 28 points off his Red Bull team-mate and 31 off championship-leader Hamilton. McLaren figures were adamant in Spa that driver equality would remain at its team, with Hamilton insisting he will not receive "any preferential treatment" over Jenson Button.

When Red Bull boss Horner was asked if Vettel is now going to play second fiddle to Webber, he answered: "That would be team orders and those are not allowed."

Webber said that the title situation was not yet clear enough for him to be given preference over Vettel, but did not rule it out in the future.

"I think it's too early, but maybe there's a different strategy compared to McLaren," he said. "It's still too early at the moment but not far away, I would say."

Vettel told Auto Motor und Sport: "There are still some races to go and we have seen how quickly things change. Monza will be hard for us and today [Sunday] we should at least have been on the podium, but everything is still in it. Head up, we move on."

However, Horner is confident that Hamilton will not cling onto his position at the top of the championship for long.

"Sometimes you ride your luck and he's had a bit of that this year," the Red Bull boss said.

____________________________________________________________

Err yeah...Lewis had 2 car failures this year while in podium positions and that is lucky?

I guess he has to try and justify the best he can why his drivers are not leading the Championship after bagging almost 100% pole record this year. P****.

Horner is right, its a long season and if you want to get serious about it, the Championship will come down between the Red Bull drivers. McLaren was fast at Spa but it has not been competitive with the Red Bull all season, yes McLaren and LH is leading the points but most of those points are not due to pure speed and a balanced car but rather to circumstances. People are forgetting that McLaren struggled the last two races in Hungary, Germany and they had no answer for Red Bull in Australia, Malaysia, Spain, Monaco, and the European Gran Prix, yes its a still a long season and anything can happen but Horner is a smart man and he knows is one of his car will be a Champion and his bet is that Vettel will dig himself out of 3rd place (are we forgetting he's still in 3rd so why would anyone shift the team to one driver if he's still in the hunt?) and challenge Mark again. Spa was a good example of not favoring one driver too early, if the race was a perfect weather race with a dry track, Vettel would have at least finished 2nd with Webber lagging somewhere in 6-7 with his troubled start, now you have a bigger mess on your hand explaining to Vettel why you favored Webber instead. Its early

[smokin]

horner trying to play mind games

Yes.

[Hammer278]

First, he is quick to defend Vettel and heavily hinting that Jenson "braked early" causing the crash!!????

And now he says this:

Red Bull team principal Christian Horner has ruled out the prospect of favouring Mark Webber over Sebastian Vettel in order to secure this year's drivers' title.

After crashing out of the Belgian Grand Prix, Vettel dropped 28 points off his Red Bull team-mate and 31 off championship-leader Hamilton. McLaren figures were adamant in Spa that driver equality would remain at its team, with Hamilton insisting he will not receive "any preferential treatment" over Jenson Button.

When Red Bull boss Horner was asked if Vettel is now going to play second fiddle to Webber, he answered: "That would be team orders and those are not allowed."

Webber said that the title situation was not yet clear enough for him to be given preference over Vettel, but did not rule it out in the future.

"I think it's too early, but maybe there's a different strategy compared to McLaren," he said. "It's still too early at the moment but not far away, I would say."

Vettel told Auto Motor und Sport: "There are still some races to go and we have seen how quickly things change. Monza will be hard for us and today [Sunday] we should at least have been on the podium, but everything is still in it. Head up, we move on."

However, Horner is confident that Hamilton will not cling onto his position at the top of the championship for long.

"Sometimes you ride your luck and he's had a bit of that this year," the Red Bull boss said.

____________________________________________________________

Err yeah...Lewis had 2 car failures this year while in podium positions and that is lucky?

I guess he has to try and justify the best he can why his drivers are not leading the Championship after bagging almost 100% pole record this year. P****.

Horner is right, its a long season and if you want to get serious about it, the Championship will come down between the Red Bull drivers. McLaren was fast at Spa but it has not been competitive with the Red Bull all season, yes McLaren and LH is leading the points but most of those points are not due to pure speed and a balanced car but rather to circumstances. People are forgetting that McLaren struggled the last two races in Hungary, Germany and they had no answer for Red Bull in Australia, Malaysia, Spain, Monaco, and the European Gran Prix, yes its a still a long season and anything can happen but Horner is a smart man and he knows is one of his car will be a Champion and his bet is that Vettel will dig himself out of 3rd place (are we forgetting he's still in 3rd so why would anyone shift the team to one driver if he's still in the hunt?) and challenge Mark again. Spa was a good example of not favoring one driver too early, if the race was a perfect weather race with a dry track, Vettel would have at least finished 2nd with Webber lagging somewhere in 6-7 with his troubled start, now you have a bigger mess on your hand explaining to Vettel why you favored Webber instead. Its early

Did you read through the whole thread? Everyone got my point except you.

I don't care about Horner's equal driver policy, I agree with that. Pls read my first post again.

[Jensonb]

Horner is trying to cover the team's bottom. The crash was caused, in part, by the illegal Red Bull flexi-wing.

[myownalias]

Horner is trying to cover the team's bottom. The crash was caused, in part, by the illegal Red Bull flexi-wing.

That's pure speculation; do you have any evidence to prove your claims? The wing passed scruineering just fine, therefore it is legal according to the rules of the sport, there's another force at play here, probably related to the floor design, which will be checked out at Monza!

[Jensonb]

Horner is trying to cover the team's bottom. The crash was caused, in part, by the illegal Red Bull flexi-wing.

That's pure speculation; do you have any evidence to prove your claims? The wing passed scruineering just fine, therefore it is legal according to the rules of the sport, there's another force at play here, probably related to the floor design, which will be checked out at Monza!

No, it's not speculation at all, I watched the onboard. Vettel's wing was see-sawing up and down in the turbulent air seconds before he binned it.

[myownalias]

Horner is trying to cover the team's bottom. The crash was caused, in part, by the illegal Red Bull flexi-wing.

That's pure speculation; do you have any evidence to prove your claims? The wing passed scruineering just fine, therefore it is legal according to the rules of the sport, there's another force at play here, probably related to the floor design, which will be checked out at Monza!

No, it's not speculation at all, I watched the onboard. Vettel's wing was see-sawing up and down in the turbulent air seconds before he binned it.

The wing is not illegal, we know that; the deflection you see in the video could be suspension travel or something related to the floor shape, I'm not technical expert but I know that the aero is a package, numerous parts are responsible for the car's aerodynamic performance. Plus there is no proof to say it caused the accident, it looks like Vettel mistimed his braking, took avoiding action and dropped it on the bump going into the bus stop corner.

[Jensonb]

Horner is trying to cover the team's bottom. The crash was caused, in part, by the illegal Red Bull flexi-wing.

That's pure speculation; do you have any evidence to prove your claims? The wing passed scruineering just fine, therefore it is legal according to the rules of the sport, there's another force at play here, probably related to the floor design, which will be checked out at Monza!

No, it's not speculation at all, I watched the onboard. Vettel's wing was see-sawing up and down in the turbulent air seconds before he binned it.

The wing is not illegal, we know that; the deflection you see in the video could be suspension travel or something related to the floor shape, I'm not technical expert but I know that the aero is a package, numerous parts are responsible for the car's aerodynamic performance. Plus there is no proof to say it caused the accident, it looks like Vettel mistimed his braking, took avoiding action and dropped it on the bump going into the bus stop corner.

We know nothing of the sort, we know it passed scrutineering. That is not the same as being legal. It's clear from the onboard shot that the wing flexes excessively in the turbulent air, immediately before he lost control of the car. It doesn't look anything like he mis-timed his braking, for us to be able to make that assumption, we would expect to see wheels locking and the car straight-lining, not a catastrophic and immediate swapping of ends.

Off-topic, why do you write everything in italics? It's incredibly distracting.

[myownalias]

Horner is trying to cover the team's bottom. The crash was caused, in part, by the illegal Red Bull flexi-wing.

That's pure speculation; do you have any evidence to prove your claims? The wing passed scruineering just fine, therefore it is legal according to the rules of the sport, there's another force at play here, probably related to the floor design, which will be checked out at Monza!

No, it's not speculation at all, I watched the onboard. Vettel's wing was see-sawing up and down in the turbulent air seconds before he binned it.

The wing is not illegal, we know that; the deflection you see in the video could be suspension travel or something related to the floor shape, I'm not technical expert but I know that the aero is a package, numerous parts are responsible for the car's aerodynamic performance. Plus there is no proof to say it caused the accident, it looks like Vettel mistimed his braking, took avoiding action and dropped it on the bump going into the bus stop corner.

We know nothing of the sort, we know it passed scrutineering. That is not the same as being legal. It's clear from the onboard shot that the wing flexes excessively in the turbulent air, immediately before he lost control of the car. It doesn't look anything like he mis-timed his braking, for us to be able to make that assumption, we would expect to see wheels locking and the car straight-lining, not a catastrophic and immediate swapping of ends.

Off-topic, why do you write everything in italics? It's incredibly distracting.

The whole point of scrutineering is to examine the car to make sure it complies with the legal requirements of the sport! The new tests that have been brought in were followed and the Red Bull wing passed, these are the same tests that would have been used when a new part is first tested for legality. I don't understand your statement saying that passing scrutineering does not mean that the part is legal; are you suggesting that different tests are performed in the scrutineering bay? From what I saw (including the onboard flexing wing video); Sebastian Vettel screwed up and took Jenson Button out; that's the bottom line, the FIA say the front wing is legal, that's good enough for me; the perceived flexing of the front wing is irreverent; the FIA have their tests which makes it legal, regardless of what it does on the track!

As for the italics; two reasons, it makes it easier to find my posts when quoted and I like the look of italic font; you must be easily distracted if italic fonts bother you!