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[bud]

In a time where cost cutting is in fashion the cost of KERS spending is so 03!

[Jabberwocky]

but it is a new technology and that is what F1 is all about.

[vaptin]

why is KERS bad for the sport?

Dunno, I havent got a problem with it, ask eddie jordan.

[EwanM]

why is KERS bad for the sport?

Dunno, I havent got a problem with it, ask eddie jordan.

[scotty]

Williams are just trying to be awkward. Okay, they don't agree with everything FOTA has to say, but their actions seem a little bit petty to me.

You seriously think Williams have finances to keep developing an expensive technology for the sole purpose of being awkward and petty?

[McLaren Fan]

Why are Williams being any more childish than FOTA? Williams being booted out of FOTA for taking care of their own business and employees; would FOTA have supported Williams financially if a breakaway did happen? If we are going to accuse Williams of being childish; FOTA need to be tarred with the same brush. If Williams think they can get a competitive advantage in using their KERS system then I say go for it, after all F1 is about technological innovation to get an advantage over your rivals.

Williams have behaved like corner boys from the start of this whole affair. When they were members of FOTA, the team was running off to the media at every turn to divulge information about FOTA's internal affairs. Would Williams appreciate it if somebody in their organisation, who was not happy about the direction the team was taking, constantly leaked information to the media and belittled the team's management on an almost-daily basis? Answer: no; the employee would be booted out the second he opened his mouth. Williams got exactly what they damn well deserved, and have lost a lot of respect in my eyes: Formula One is a professional business; amateur chavs cannot be taken seriously.

You mistake me as somebody who supports FOTA. Whilst I think FOTA is certainly the lesser of two evils, I do not fully sign up to their agenda. Their recent ideas on the Grand Prix weekend, for instance, are the stuff of lunacy. But at least FOTA has brought down Mosley's facist regime, halted Formula One's pitiable descent to racing series like A1 Grand Prix, and stopped a two-tier championship going ahead. Williams, however, backed Mosley's warped version of Formula One, by forging an unholy alliance with the FIA and Ecclestone, and are continuing to support Mosley every second they are intent on using KERS in 2010.

[myownalias]

Still on the anti FOTA tirade huh

I'm always on the anti-FOTA tirade! I don't think they are good for the sport in general, they have their own agenda, the whole "what fans want" is all smoke and mirrors.

Williams are being not only childish but selfish and are desperately looking for an advantage.

Isn't that what all the teams do? try anything within (and sometimes outside) the rules to get a competitive advantage over their rivals!

Fota have their own agenda? Well I guess Williams is being direct in only caring about what is best for them and disregarding what's best for the sport in general!

As for Fota not being good for the sport? Hello I dunno what you're watching but they are the sport!

Of course FOTA have their own agenda; their comments not so long ago about FOTA being the dominant force and the non-FOTA teams would simply have to play by FOTA's rules or not play at all. Mosley rightly put pay to that idea with his insist that nothing can be passed without all 13 teams agreement.

As for Williams divulging confidential information while in FOTA; we don't know what went on behind closed doors. I think it's likely that Williams (and Force India) were being forced to follow the FOTA line which doesn't tally with what Williams (and Force India) need to survive. I am anti-FOTA but I am also not pro-FIA either. In reality FOTA are the big hitters like Ferrari, McLaren, Toyota and Renault, (the latter two teams may not even be on the grid next year) the other three teams are minnows that don't want to be ostracised and excluded by FOTA. Williams shouldn't have divulged information about internal FOTA affairs but Williams probably would have been excluded regardless for looking at their own best interests. I know there are a lot of FOTA fans on this forum but I believe that there has been more disruption in F1 since the inception of FOTA.

[EwanM]

The debate on Williams is a bit of a paradox really.

However this thread is mainly on the team's KERS system and whether they should be allowed to use it or not. Whatever your opinion of Williams, they do not need to follow the line of FOTA. Infact i'd say that
their decision to push on with the device is a wise one, and probably quite professional for them.

They exist solely as a racing business and as a team they exist to compete for victories. Now if KERS can give them an advantage in their quest to win, then they should go for it. It is well within the official rules for Williams to use KERS on their cars. Maybe in a way they are wise to push ahead with their own agenda.

I mean really, what is FOTA now? As much as they have forced the hand of the FIA President, that was only due to the influence of Bernie and the CVC. Nothing has changed for them: Ticket prices and race fees will continue to go up. The CVC will still call the shots, not the teams.

And soon they'll probably have another hardliner in the shape of Todt, with his bonker ideas.

Unity can never be truly achieved amongst the teams. FOTA will sooner, rather than later, have this problem and splinter.

And another thing, I don't think FOTA's agenda is best for the sport in general. In many ways it is just as flawed as Mosley's.

Some of their ideas are just ridiculous.

The teams should stick to being the Judiciary and not the Legislature..


EDIT:

And another thing, the remaining members of FOTA are hardly perfect in their political conduct. Toyota, for example, didn't exactly help the political process.

[Denthúl]

Still on the anti FOTA tirade huh basically Williams are putting themselves first on the KERS issue, McLaren for example would prefer to keep KERS but for the sake of the sport have put their own ideas aside and agree with FOTA. Now who out of the 2 are looking out for the sport?
Williams are being not only childish but selfish and are desperately looking for an advantage.

Booting Williams out for fulfilling contractual obligations was also childish...

[bud]

Still on the anti FOTA tirade huh basically Williams are putting themselves first on the KERS issue, McLaren for example would prefer to keep KERS but for the sake of the sport have put their own ideas aside and agree with FOTA. Now who out of the 2 are looking out for the sport?
Williams are being not only childish but selfish and are desperately looking for an advantage.

Booting Williams out for fulfilling contractual obligations was also childish...

Childish for booting out a betrayer? and dont you think the other teams also had a contractual obligation?

and ill say it again McLaren would prefer to keep KERS as part of F1 due to the success of their own system yet are quite happy to ditch the system for the sake of cost cutting.

[darwin dali]

Still on the anti FOTA tirade huh basically Williams are putting themselves first on the KERS issue, McLaren for example would prefer to keep KERS but for the sake of the sport have put their own ideas aside and agree with FOTA. Now who out of the 2 are looking out for the sport?
Williams are being not only childish but selfish and are desperately looking for an advantage.

Booting Williams out for fulfilling contractual obligations was also childish...

Childish for booting out a betrayer? and dont you think the other teams also had a contractual obligation?

and ill say it again McLaren would prefer to keep KERS as part of F1 due to the success of their own system yet are quite happy to ditch the system for the sake of cost cutting.

[myownalias]

Still on the anti FOTA tirade huh basically Williams are putting themselves first on the KERS issue, McLaren for example would prefer to keep KERS but for the sake of the sport have put their own ideas aside and agree with FOTA. Now who out of the 2 are looking out for the sport?
Williams are being not only childish but selfish and are desperately looking for an advantage.

Booting Williams out for fulfilling contractual obligations was also childish...

Childish for booting out a betrayer? and dont you think the other teams also had a contractual obligation?

Force India were also booted out for doing what was in the best interests of their team. The fact was that if Williams stuck with FOTA; the future of Sir Frank's team was uncertain, leaving themselves open to legal action from Bernie, Frank did what was best for his shareholders and employees; is that such a bad thing? KERS isn't a bad thing for Formula 1; now the technology has come to maturity, it's actually pretty useful as proven by Lewis Hamilton's win in Hungary!

[bud]

It's use is not in question but it's cost is.

[Denthúl]

Still on the anti FOTA tirade huh basically Williams are putting themselves first on the KERS issue, McLaren for example would prefer to keep KERS but for the sake of the sport have put their own ideas aside and agree with FOTA. Now who out of the 2 are looking out for the sport?
Williams are being not only childish but selfish and are desperately looking for an advantage.

Booting Williams out for fulfilling contractual obligations was also childish...

Childish for booting out a betrayer? and dont you think the other teams also had a contractual obligation?

and ill say it again McLaren would prefer to keep KERS as part of F1 due to the success of their own system yet are quite happy to ditch the system for the sake of cost cutting.

Williams were already committed, but do not have the financial resources (or other business existences) of any other team (the exception here may be Brawn, although as far as I'm aware they still had Hondacash at the time). Ferrari, Renault, BMW, Toyota, McLaren and Mercedes all have road car companies; most of those also compete in other sports, or run entire categories. Red Bull are a major energy drinks company with an almost world-wide presence and also sponsor many other motorsporting categories (what kind of series is it where you don't see a Red Bull-sponsored driver and/or car?) and Vijay Mallya has Kingfisher.

[7UpJordan]

It's use is not in question but it's cost is.

Out of all the teams who have developed KERS, Williams' system is the cheapest, at one point it was reported that they spent £2million in comparison to the likes of McLaren and Honda spending in excess of something like £300million. To help develop KERS Sir Frank invested in a local company that specialises in the KERS process.

So there you see, Williams aren't overspending or stretching their budget here, it's just another shrewd bit of business by Sir Frank.