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[darwin dali]

Prejudice: preconceived judgment or opinion (2): an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge b: an instance of such judgment or opinion c: an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics.

The first time around the stewards/FIA were FAVORING McLaren by believing LH/Ryan's story to the detriment of JT. Had they been prejudiced, there would have been a different outcome then already!
...without just grounds... is the key term here: there is plenty of just grounds for the FIA to act. No prejudice necessary.

[Jensonb]

I should sincerely hope it has nothing to do with racism. But does anybody recall at last year's Hungarian GP a journalist apparently dug up some "dirt" on an essay that Mad Max wrote in the 1950's which was very racist towards immigrants from the West Indes?

You wouldn't need to look very far to find evidence that the Mosleys are fascists, but that's not relevant.

[darwin dali]

So much for your statements that you will be more objective when it comes to McLaren now Ron Dennis has moved aside.

I am trying to be objective, but it's difficult to feel much sympathy (which wouldn't be objectivity by definition anyway) for McLaren when they make an arse out of themselves and lie and try to cheat and when even the staunchest McLaren supporters are having a hard time with their team's antics.

[Jabberwocky]

I think it all comes down too:-

Did McLaren lie? Yes
Did Lewis Lie? Yes
Do they deserve to be punished? Yes

saying it is a race matter is just wrong. As for Max's past then that is that. I am sure we have all made errors in our pasts. Saying Look at the "the Mosley's past" is tarring people with a brush.

EDIT: sounded harsher than I meant it to

[McLaren Fan]

So much for your statements that you will be more objective when it comes to McLaren now Ron Dennis has moved aside.

I am trying to be objective, but it's difficult to feel much sympathy (which wouldn't be objectivity by definition anyway) for McLaren when they make an arse out of themselves and lie and try to cheat and when even the staunchest McLaren supporters are having a hard time with their team's antics.

First, I sort of owe you an apology for criticising your objectivity. Frosty used the wrong choice of word ('prejudice') in his post, which created some confusion as to what he actually meant to get across.

Second, I'm not asking for you to be sympathetic to McLaren. The team's set up and idolisation of Hamilton is certainly making me feel anything but that. Objectively, however, I'm pretty satisfied had another team team did what McLaren are patently guilty of, they would not hauled before the WMSC.

[darwin dali]

So much for your statements that you will be more objective when it comes to McLaren now Ron Dennis has moved aside.

I am trying to be objective, but it's difficult to feel much sympathy (which wouldn't be objectivity by definition anyway) for McLaren when they make an arse out of themselves and lie and try to cheat and when even the staunchest McLaren supporters are having a hard time with their team's antics.

First, I sort of owe you an apology for criticising your objectivity. Frosty used the wrong choice of word ('prejudice') in his post, which created some confusion as to what he actually meant to get across.

Second, I'm not asking for you to be sympathetic to McLaren. The team's set up and idolisation of Hamilton is certainly making me feel anything but that. Objectively, however, I'm pretty satisfied had another team team did what McLaren are patently guilty of, they would not hauled before the WMSC.

That (other team not being dragged to court) might well be true (not that I'm saying it is true, could be either way), but then again, OBJECTIVELY McLaren brought that kind of treatment onto themselves dating back to 2007. In the FIA's eyes I'm sure the team is under some sort of probation and so McLaren violated said probation and will feel the consequences.

[Frosty]

Frosty used the wrong choice of word ('prejudice') in his post, which created some confusion as to what he actually meant to get across.

Yes probably a bad choice of words on my part. What I really meant is that when McLaren do get penalised I feel their penalties are far harsher than they deserve and harsher when compared to penalties given to other teams.

[Lordblackstuff]

I should sincerely hope it has nothing to do with racism. But does anybody recall at last year's Hungarian GP a journalist apparently dug up some "dirt" on an essay that Mad Max wrote in the 1950's which was very racist towards immigrants from the West Indes?

You wouldn't need to look very far to find evidence that the Mosleys are fascists, but that's not relevant.

Thats quite naughty of you.
Mosely got a bit of a bad deal in the press did he not ?

[Denthúl]

I should sincerely hope it has nothing to do with racism. But does anybody recall at last year's Hungarian GP a journalist apparently dug up some "dirt" on an essay that Mad Max wrote in the 1950's which was very racist towards immigrants from the West Indes?

You wouldn't need to look very far to find evidence that the Mosleys are fascists, but that's not relevant.

Thats quite naughty of you.
Mosely got a bit of a bad deal in the press did he not ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oswald_Mosley

[EwanM]

I don't think that Formula One is a racist sport. Certainly Racism has never been an issue in the sport.
I think that by bringing such an argument up, Sutil has pushed F1 down a path it really doesn't need to go down.
The FIA haven't been discriminative towards Hamilton and neither have any of the fans (Bar the Spaniards).
Certainly I'm not Hamilton fan, but race has nothing to do with it. I still admire his talent as a racing driver.

[scotty]

Ugh, i was waiting for some tool to drag racism into this...

[rleggett]

It's not the colour of Hamilton's skin, it's the colour of his car...

But in fairness to the FIA (and I speak as a McLaren / Hamilton fan up until now) Ryan and Hamilton were bang out of order. The worry is that this being McLaren, will the FIA be more heavy handed than they would to others. To my mind this is similar to the Honda incident over the fuel tank, when they lied about the fact that it is empty. If McLaren receive a similar penalty to Honda (which I think was disqualification plus a two race ban?) then they are being fair. If they go further, then they are being unfair.

I don't see why Hamilton should be off the hook with the FIA; in my eyes he is just as culpable as his team. He should have told the truth and shuld be punished. I would go as far as to say that since this is a sporting incident on one car (not a technical infringement on both as with Honda), then perhaps teh FIA should only ban Hamilton's car, and let Heikki race, as he is an innocent party in all this.

But this is a silver car, not a red car, so the the outcome is unpredictable...

[MAD MAX]

I should sincerely hope it has nothing to do with racism. But does anybody recall at last year's Hungarian GP a journalist apparently dug up some "dirt" on an essay that Mad Max wrote in the 1950's which was very racist towards immigrants from the West Indes?

I'll put my hand up to writing some crap in the past, but I don't recall writing this

[Gaz]

He does get alot of Penalties but thats because he drives for Mclaren.

Like Mclaren Fan says they could of said Lewis organized all this 1 season ban!

but instead they have protrayed him out as a victim.

so no racism really.

But Bernie at least (not sure about max) certainly come across as old fashioned after the spanish incident.

[f1usa]

I hate it when people cry racism for no reason. It belittles actual racism by association.

Why would Sutil say this if he did not believe it to be true, as he and Lewis are friends who raced together before F1 careers began. And a reply with the starting phrase "I hate" seems a little out of place in this thread.