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User avatar
By McLaren Fan
#96739
If Ecclestone is trying to cause divisions within FOTA, he'll have to try much harder than that. It's been common knowledge for decades that Ferrari have been bed-fellows with Ecclestone and the FIA. FOTA have accepted this and drawn a line under it. His comments about Brawn can hardly be taken seriously either. If I were one of the teams, I'd laugh off these remarks and take them as a sign of Ecclestone's desperation.
User avatar
By Gert
#96852
You can't get much clearer than "But surely Brawn is a man of total integrity who would never take advantage? “What, working for Ferrari?” replies Ecclestone"

Yes Bernie's only too happy to upset people at the moment, especially those who he feels have done the dirty on him (currently Ferrari & Brawn) but that doesn't change what he said.

Anymore than his revelation that Ferrari get extra cash (80 million per WCC winning season) to stab their competitors in the back is anything other than proof Ferrari are not to be trusted.

Perhaps the Brawn supporters would care to explain what's honest & trustworthy about Ross' recent sacking of 300 odd people - people that turned down the opportunity to get paid a proper redundency before Christmas in favour of helping the team & are now faced with massively reduced/non-existent pays offs 'cos they've just been removed forma very new firm?

Actually, there's nothing honest or trustworthy about that is there?

I'm not saying that Bernie is a saint, far from it but Brawn is scum.
User avatar
By Gilles 27
#96858
Anymore than his revelation that Ferrari get extra cash (80 million per WCC winning season) to stab their competitors in the back is anything other than proof Ferrari are not to be trusted.


This was not 'revelation'. Everyone inside F1 was aware of this especially the teams, mainly because they were ALL offered the money! I'm sure they are not best pleased about it but they were all given the chance and Ferrari decided that solidarity with the other teams at this point was less important than the money. Williams and one other unnamed team also gratefully received money as part of the same deal.

I have never really had a problem with Max and it is only recently that Bernie has become such a big problem. The problem for me is that the role of an institution like FOM in the operation of a sport that is no longer experiencing growth is potentially damaging. Bernie is now in an area beyond his expertise but has too much pride to admit it.
User avatar
By Gert
#96860
Anymore than his revelation that Ferrari get extra cash (80 million per WCC winning season) to stab their competitors in the back is anything other than proof Ferrari are not to be trusted.


.... they were ALL offered the money!

Wrong

Williams and one other unnamed team also gratefully received money as part of the same deal.

Again, wrong

I have never really had a problem with Max

Turning F1 into a smutty pub joke is ok then?

and it is only recently that Bernie has become such a big problem.

For Ferrari, yes. They really shouldn't go biting the hand that feeds them

The problem for me is that the role of an institution like FOM in the operation of a sport that is no longer experiencing growth is potentially damaging.

Very true & I have to say, very well observed. Add to that the observation that the FIA's credibility is at an all-time low & you've got it nicely summed up

Bernie is now in an area beyond his expertise but has too much pride to admit it.

He's well within his capabilities here, for the moment.
User avatar
By Denthúl
#96901
You can't get much clearer than "But surely Brawn is a man of total integrity who would never take advantage? “What, working for Ferrari?” replies Ecclestone"

Yes Bernie's only too happy to upset people at the moment, especially those who he feels have done the dirty on him (currently Ferrari & Brawn) but that doesn't change what he said.

Anymore than his revelation that Ferrari get extra cash (80 million per WCC winning season) to stab their competitors in the back is anything other than proof Ferrari are not to be trusted.

Perhaps the Brawn supporters would care to explain what's honest & trustworthy about Ross' recent sacking of 300 odd people - people that turned down the opportunity to get paid a proper redundency before Christmas in favour of helping the team & are now faced with massively reduced/non-existent pays offs 'cos they've just been removed forma very new firm?

Actually, there's nothing honest or trustworthy about that is there?

I'm not saying that Bernie is a saint, far from it but Brawn is scum.


I'm sorry, but, what the f***? Making people redundant suddenly makes you scum? Where did you get that idea?

If people didn't take the pre-Brawn packages offered by Honda, then that's their problem. They took the risk, gambling their future on the possibility that the team may have been saved. You have to remember that Ross Brawn does not have the amount of money that Honda does, so it would cost him significantly to keep on staff that are not needed and it would cost him significantly to give them the same packages offered by Honda.

If I was in Brawn's position, I'd be making around that number of people redundant, because I sure as Hell could not afford to keep them on, especially when they are of limited use to me.

Such actions would only be dishonest and untrustworthy if he had made a clear-cut promise that all staff would be kept on. When money is tight, people lose jobs. You have to deal with it.
User avatar
By Gert
#96992
It's not making people redundent that makes Brawn scum (although it's still a shít thing to do) it's abusing his position in the technical working group (as any ex-Ferrari person would, according the Bernie) to get what's best for him that's unsporting & thus scum-like.

Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Of course, if he had made promises to people & then made them redundent that would be scum-like too.
User avatar
By Jensonb
#97024
It's not making people redundent that makes Brawn scum (although it's still a shít thing to do) it's abusing his position in the technical working group (as any ex-Ferrari person would, according the Bernie) to get what's best for him that's unsporting & thus scum-like.

Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Of course, if he had made promises to people & then made them redundent that would be scum-like too.

How dare you condemn the man on hearsay - not even that, insinuations with no weight or evidence? What places you on such a pedestal as to condemn a man as scum based on the word of a serial liar?

And as for the redundancies, what the sam hell did you want him to do? The team doesn't have enough money to pay the salaries of its entire former workforce and some of them aren't needed any more anyway (Sad, but true). Yes, it's s*** that people are losing their livelihoods, but to blame one man for it is preposterous. Blame HONDA for promising everyone 2009 would be their year, then leaving everyone in limbo by pulling out if you must, but do not balme the man who saved everyone else's jobs.
User avatar
By Denthúl
#97031
It's not making people redundent that makes Brawn scum (although it's still a shít thing to do) it's abusing his position in the technical working group (as any ex-Ferrari person would, according the Bernie) to get what's best for him that's unsporting & thus scum-like.

Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Of course, if he had made promises to people & then made them redundent that would be scum-like too.


Would you like to tell me how exactly he has abused his position? :)

Protip: I am already 99% certain you don't have a clue, so you only have to put in minimal effort to fill in the other 1%.
User avatar
By Gert
#97271
It's not making people redundent that makes Brawn scum (although it's still a shít thing to do) it's abusing his position in the technical working group (as any ex-Ferrari person would, according the Bernie) to get what's best for him that's unsporting & thus scum-like.

Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Of course, if he had made promises to people & then made them redundent that would be scum-like too.

How dare you condemn the man on hearsay - not even that, insinuations with no weight or evidence? What places you on such a pedestal as to condemn a man as scum based on the word of a serial liar?

And as for the redundancies, what the sam hell did you want him to do? The team doesn't have enough money to pay the salaries of its entire former workforce and some of them aren't needed any more anyway (Sad, but true). Yes, it's s*** that people are losing their livelihoods, but to blame one man for it is preposterous. Blame HONDA for promising everyone 2009 would be their year, then leaving everyone in limbo by pulling out if you must, but do not balme the man who saved everyone else's jobs.


Saved everybody's jobs?

You clearly aren't paying attention.

& who are you to call Bernie a serial liar?
User avatar
By Gert
#97273
It's not making people redundent that makes Brawn scum (although it's still a shít thing to do) it's abusing his position in the technical working group (as any ex-Ferrari person would, according the Bernie) to get what's best for him that's unsporting & thus scum-like.

Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Of course, if he had made promises to people & then made them redundent that would be scum-like too.


Would you like to tell me how exactly he has abused his position? :)

Protip: I am already 99% certain you don't have a clue, so you only have to put in minimal effort to fill in the other 1%.


Bernie seems to have all the proof he needs. If he hadn't he wouldn't have said anything for fear of being sued into oblivion.

Protip - switch your brain on before you commit your thoughts to the internet.
User avatar
By JB-FTW-09
#97312
He will either be negtive towards us or happy. mainly negative as Brawn probably isn't paying much into his wallet. Changing the rules for Buttons sake? did he ask for that? No.
User avatar
By headless
#97410
Brawn isn't scum.
Clueless man Gert.
Ross Brawn is a genius.
User avatar
By Gert
#97424
Brawn isn't scum.
Clueless man Gert.
Ross Brawn is a genius.


Bernie thinks Ross is scum.

I think Ross is a genius (does that make me clueless) - but then I suspect you probably wouldn't agree with my reasoning. Suffice to say I regard Bernie as more of a genius & leave it a that.
User avatar
By Frosty
#97433
It's not making people redundent that makes Brawn scum (although it's still a shít thing to do) it's abusing his position in the technical working group (as any ex-Ferrari person would, according the Bernie) to get what's best for him that's unsporting & thus scum-like.

Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Of course, if he had made promises to people & then made them redundent that would be scum-like too.


I'm pretty sure brawn never promised to make no one redundant I think he promised to save the team which he has done! I see no evidence of Brawn abusing his position in the technical working group either! Yes Bernie is a genius but he is also a scheming, cheating little twat! Being a genius does not make a person moral.
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