FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[LewEngBridewell]

Good point, but then again, Newey didn't strike gold every time...

[andrew]

Good point, but then again, Newey didn't strike gold every time...

No, but the Force ultimately triumphs and you have to admit, Darth Vader would have been a McLaren guy. His outfit matched the paint job on the cars.

[LewEngBridewell]

Good point, but then again, Newey didn't strike gold every time...

No, but the Force ultimately triumphs and you have to admit, Darth Vader would have been a McLaren guy. His outfit matched the paint job on the cars.

I suppose...... I've never really taken that view on it, myself...

[Hammer278]

Merc are a disaster?? Nonsense.

They are only behind the top 3 teams, some way behind but not a disaster. And who says they are throwing huge amounts of money? On a cost basis, they are probably running one of the leanest operations out there...from the chart of how much teams spend and their workforce. NOW they have said they will expand their workforce, but the results will take a while to come.

This is Mercs second season as a full fledged team correct? BMW did much better though completely lost their way in their 3rd (that was a disaster)...but if Merc makes continuous progress without losing their way, we could see them do a Renault in the next 3 years. I'll never count them out...unless Michael is still driving for them in 3 years, which means I've counted them out.

[smokin]

Voiced my opinion more than a year ago and I've seen nothing to change it.

http://www.forumula1.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8946

[andrew]

Merc are a disaster?? Nonsense.

Well they are. They have not achieved their aim of challenging for wins or the championship. Nor have they been anywhere near threatening the top 3. These were aims which Merc promised to achieve last year and then again this yer and lo and behold they have not come anywhere doing these.

This is Mercs second season as a full fledged team correct?

It's the 2nd year of the name but the team has been around for years. Basically this team is just a continuation of Honda.

[LewEngBridewell]

Basically this team is just a continuation of Honda.

Maybe they're destined to be forever a disaster. Save for the brief Brawn era, BAR and Honda were such a waste of space and time.... too many unfulfilled promises...

[Hammer278]

Merc are a disaster?? Nonsense.

Well they are. They have not achieved their aim of challenging for wins or the championship. Nor have they been anywhere near threatening the top 3. These were aims which Merc promised to achieve last year and then again this yer and lo and behold they have not come anywhere doing these.

This is Mercs second season as a full fledged team correct?

It's the 2nd year of the name but the team has been around for years. Basically this team is just a continuation of Honda.

The management has changed though. I dont know, after that insane spell from 2000-2004 in Ferrari I find it hard to write off Ross Brawn.

[andrew]

Basically this team is just a continuation of Honda.

Maybe they're destined to be forever a disaster. Save for the brief Brawn era, BAR and Honda were such a waste of space and time.... too many unfulfilled promises...

The Brawn era with the gift from MrM you mean? Funny how when the other teams were finally allowed to run their double diffusers Brawn's advantage was gone and they pretty much reverted to where Merc are now.

You're right though, they do have a lot of very expreienced and talented people but it just doesn't seem to be working. I would love to see Schumacher retire for good on a high at the end of 2012 with a championship but unless Merc pull something spectactular out of the bag I'm not going to hold my breath.

The management has changed though. I dont know, after that insane spell from 2000-2004 in Ferrari I find it hard to write off Ross Brawn.

I wouldn't write off Ross Brawn either or any of the drivers but there is something that is just not right.

[LewEngBridewell]

I dont know, after that insane spell from 2000-2004 in Ferrari I find it hard to write off Ross Brawn.

Ferrari had a combined force of great talent back then, not just Brawn. There was also Jean Todt and Michael Schumacher (ever a master at developing a car and a team).

These are all folk that Ferrari no longer have, and it has showed in recent years.

[zurich_allan]

Personally I'm happy for him keep going another season as his race pace and racecraft are still very good. I just find it so frustrating watching him in qualifying. I'm quite certain that if only he could get the odd great lap out of this season's car - say pull out a 4th or 5th as Rosberg can do now and again that he might just be able to sneak a podium or two! Being always 8th - 12th makes it so much more difficult.

[FRAFPDD]

hes an odd one schumi, if he can qualify that Merc behind rosberg by a place or two, and race around the points, then its hard to see exactly what he might of "lost"

then on the other hand, if we say he hasnt lost anything, then the career long concerns that he realyl was an ok driver in a fantastic set of cars is realised, with the fact that Rosberg is consistently beating him, in points anyway.


So what is the answer, i like schumacher, but i dont see how people can say hes lost it, when he is actualyl driving that car around for 70 laps, and finishing around, but behind rosberg. Maybe hes not as good, maybe the car doesnt suit him, god knows.

But if he wants his reputation kept on a high note he'll have to stick with it until that car is a front runner, leaving after 1 or 5 it doesnt matter in an uncompetitive Merc will be a disaster, and even then we have to see him beat Rosberg.

Is Rosberg better then we give credit, is schumacher worse then we thought?

[Crawf]

Just asking....but what is wrong with Rosberg beating Schumacher? He is one of the most talented drivers on the gird and very under-rated.
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Mercedes is a funny team. A team in the middle of no-mans land I guess. There is quite a big gap in pace between the next group of teams (Red Bull, McLaren, Ferrari) but also a big gap between the group behind (Force India, Lotus-Renault, etc). 4th is by no way a failure for the 4th best team on the grid. However 2011 hasn't really brought any great deal of results (Atleast in 2010 we took a few podiums). We need a podium by years end (Surely we'll get a chaotic race or two???).

Next year will be very important for Mercedes. We need consistent podiums next year (and maybe a flukey win).But we can't be expected to just occupy 7th/8th in every GP again. Success on merit doesn't come quick in this sport (Took Red Bull 5 years). Mercedes need to stick in there and not give up.

[racechick]

Just asking....but what is wrong with Rosberg beating Schumacher? He is one of the most talented drivers on the gird and very under-rated.
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Mercedes is a funny team. A team in the middle of no-mans land I guess. There is quite a big gap in pace between the next group of teams (Red Bull, McLaren, Ferrari) but also a big gap between the group behind (Force India, Lotus-Renault, etc). 4th is by no way a failure for the 4th best team on the grid. However 2011 hasn't really brought any great deal of results (Atleast in 2010 we took a few podiums). We need a podium by years end (Surely we'll get a chaotic race or two???).

Next year will be very important for Mercedes. We need consistent podiums next year (and maybe a flukey win).But we can't be expected to just occupy 7th/8th in every GP again. Success on merit doesn't come quick in this sport (Took Red Bull 5 years). Mercedes need to stick in there and not give up.

This is wahat Brawn is looking to address for next year. He wants to firmly join the group of three making it a group of four. Hence the changes he's planning.

[andrew]

Just asking....but what is wrong with Rosberg beating Schumacher? He is one of the most talented drivers on the gird and very under-rated.

Nothing wrong with it at all. As you say, rosberg is a good driver and should be in a better car than the Merc. It is just the nature of things with the younger generation superceeding the older bunch. The thing with Schumacher is that he has had so much success that the fall for him is greater and of course this makes it more enjoyable for some people to put the boot in. Sadly it's the old thing of the bigger they are the harder they fall.