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[killem2]

I'm sure he did but if I were him, I'd say listen guys I'm not getting *****ed because you want to take a risk.

For better or worse, Jenson trusts his team. I think in the long run it's for the best.

Jenson is known as the thinking man's driver; which I why I like him as a driver but on this occasion he didn't use his head; a penalty was always coming; all he needed to do was blend the throttle to let Massa past before the two Ferrari's did the switcheroo, the McLaren had the pace to be on the podium, poor call from Jenson on this occasion!

This is what I mean, I was expecting jensen to let him through and just thrash massa on the next lap because he was roasting that Ferrari in pace!

[bud]

For me Jenson's pass was fine - no penalty should have been applied.

I argued Nando's case last year in his incident with Kubica. Funny how these things seem to repeat themselves.

The duel between Jens and Felipe for those early sting of laps up to the first round of tyre changes was simply excellent and was exactly what F1 should be encouraging. And, the stupid flappy thing didn't add one iota to the battle. I'm surprised to read people canning Felipe, I thought he had a pretty good race. Holding off a charging, way faster Macca - that was excellent.

Back to the Jenson penalty, as I said at the start - what a crock. Egads, we need to encourage that!

i dunno in every racing category you need to make the pass stick, just getting your nose in front whilst along side is not a pass. You have to get the whole car in front of the car you're trying to pass without leaving the track. He should have given the place back straight away because he had to cut the chicane. A big no no in any form of racing.

[darwin dali]

For me Jenson's pass was fine - no penalty should have been applied.

I argued Nando's case last year in his incident with Kubica. Funny how these things seem to repeat themselves.

The duel between Jens and Felipe for those early sting of laps up to the first round of tyre changes was simply excellent and was exactly what F1 should be encouraging. And, the stupid flappy thing didn't add one iota to the battle. I'm surprised to read people canning Felipe, I thought he had a pretty good race. Holding off a charging, way faster Macca - that was excellent.

Back to the Jenson penalty, as I said at the start - what a crock. Egads, we need to encourage that!

i dunno in every racing category you need to make the pass stick, just getting your nose in front whilst along side is not a pass. You have to get the whole car in front of the car you're trying to pass without leaving the track. He should have given the place back straight away because he had to cut the chicane. A big no no in any form of racing.

I was surprised when he didn't give it back considering he was arguably faster and could have tried again and more successfully so. And then when the Ferrari's pitted it was a foregone conclusion he'd get a drive-through.

[Jensonb]

I'm sure he did but if I were him, I'd say listen guys I'm not getting *****ed because you want to take a risk.

For better or worse, Jenson trusts his team. I think in the long run it's for the best.

Jenson is known as the thinking man's driver; which I why I like him as a driver but on this occasion he didn't use his head; a penalty was always coming; all he needed to do was blend the throttle to let Massa past before the two Ferrari's did the switcheroo, the McLaren had the pace to be on the podium, poor call from Jenson on this occasion!

This is what I mean, I was expecting jensen to let him through and just thrash massa on the next lap because he was roasting that Ferrari in pace!

Nobody's perfect guys.

[Hammer278]

I dont know...in a situation like that your role is to be the brawn and the team are the brains. If the team told Jenson to hold station, he should hold station.

Assuming you're a driver and all you see in front of you is the track, you would think the team has tonnes more information at disposal wouldn't you? Jenson was a victim in this regard, but he shouldn't have cut the track in the first place. Since he did (to avoid collision apparently) he should've just given the place back straightaway. There was no need to consult the team.

[bud]

I dont know...in a situation like that your role is to be the brawn and the team are the brains. If the team told Jenson to hold station, he should hold station.

Assuming you're a driver and all you see in front of you is the track, you would think the team has tonnes more information at disposal wouldn't you? Jenson was a victim in this regard, but he shouldn't have cut the track in the first place. Since he did (to avoid collision apparently) he should've just given the place back straightaway. There was no need to consult the team.

He has been around long enough to know cutting a chicane to make a pass stick is not allowed, he didnt need the teams input on this. Button said straight away he was ahead but was pushed wide by Massa, He wanted the team to ask the stewards on it. But by then Felipe amazingly didnt have the same fight in him that he showed with Button for Alonso who got past him with ease. So Button would have had to let both past but then the pit stop by Massa which may or may not have been on purpose so Button gets a drive through just put the nail in the coffin.

[Hammer278]

I dont know...in a situation like that your role is to be the brawn and the team are the brains. If the team told Jenson to hold station, he should hold station.

Assuming you're a driver and all you see in front of you is the track, you would think the team has tonnes more information at disposal wouldn't you? Jenson was a victim in this regard, but he shouldn't have cut the track in the first place. Since he did (to avoid collision apparently) he should've just given the place back straightaway. There was no need to consult the team.

He has been around long enough to know cutting a chicane to make a pass stick is not allowed, he didnt need the teams input on this. Button said straight away he was ahead but was pushed wide by Massa, He wanted the team to ask the stewards on it. But by then Felipe amazingly didnt have the same fight in him that he showed with Button for Alonso who got past him with ease. So Button would have had to let both past but then the pit stop by Massa which may or may not have been on purpose so Button gets a drive through just put the nail in the coffin.

So you agree with my bolded section? I assume you read the whole post.

[bud]

I dont know...in a situation like that your role is to be the brawn and the team are the brains. If the team told Jenson to hold station, he should hold station.

Assuming you're a driver and all you see in front of you is the track, you would think the team has tonnes more information at disposal wouldn't you? Jenson was a victim in this regard, but he shouldn't have cut the track in the first place. Since he did (to avoid collision apparently) he should've just given the place back straightaway. There was no need to consult the team.

He has been around long enough to know cutting a chicane to make a pass stick is not allowed, he didnt need the teams input on this. Button said straight away he was ahead but was pushed wide by Massa, He wanted the team to ask the stewards on it. But by then Felipe amazingly didnt have the same fight in him that he showed with Button for Alonso who got past him with ease. So Button would have had to let both past but then the pit stop by Massa which may or may not have been on purpose so Button gets a drive through just put the nail in the coffin.

So you agree with my bolded section? I assume you read the whole post.

I agree with that yeah but just not that Jenson needed the team to tell him to hold station.

[vaptin]

I dont know...in a situation like that your role is to be the brawn and the team are the brains. If the team told Jenson to hold station, he should hold station.

Assuming you're a driver and all you see in front of you is the track, you would think the team has tonnes more information at disposal wouldn't you? Jenson was a victim in this regard, but he shouldn't have cut the track in the first place. Since he did (to avoid collision apparently) he should've just given the place back straightaway. There was no need to consult the team.

He has been around long enough to know cutting a chicane to make a pass stick is not allowed, he didnt need the teams input on this. Button said straight away he was ahead but was pushed wide by Massa, He wanted the team to ask the stewards on it. But by then Felipe amazingly didnt have the same fight in him that he showed with Button for Alonso who got past him with ease. So Button would have had to let both past but then the pit stop by Massa which may or may not have been on purpose so Button gets a drive through just put the nail in the coffin.

It's possible the Ferrari's switched, Brundel immediately suggested it as he said Button would then have to let both Ferrari's past.

[vlad]

Yep, that was obvious. Anyway, I still think the team should have told him to let Massa pass.

[Bounce]

I think it was outstanding. The reactions on the Ferrari pit wall were second to none. 1st they get Massa to let Alonso through and back off, and then pitting Massa.

I'm a Jenson fan from BAR days, but I was impressed with that.

[Bubbie]

As soon as I saw it I was willing him to give the place back, knowing that Alonso would pass Massa soon thereafter. He should (or someone on the pitwall) should have had the same presence of mind everyone watching and in the commentary boxes had. "We were waiting for race control" what a crock.

I can see why JB was frustrated, Massa was backing him into Alonso. He was in a very tough situation, made much worse by trying to cut the corner. It does look like he was forced a little bit by Massa, but he should have held his line and tried to pass the right way through the corner. He would have gotten Massa I think at that corner. I don't think Massa would have actually turned in on him, he just blipped that way a little bit to frighten JB off the track.

[scotty]

I just can't see why McLaren didn't learn from Spa '08 given their excuse of waiting to see what race control said. It should have been patently obvious.

The other two moves in the race are such a different situation really. I don't believe for one second those two could have made the moves stick had they dropped the speed necessary to actually make the corner properly. However it's much more cut and dry in making a judgement on corner cutting compared to overshooting - i personally don't think they want to open that can of worms and set a potentially very dangerous precident for future incidents. Obviously that doesn't automatically mean these incidents were justified, by any means.

I think that like Alonso's incident at Silverstone last year, there's a lot of circumstancial bad luck involved. The fact that Alonso was able to pass Massa two corners later totally changed the complexion of this incident. If that hadn't happened Button would have just dropped back no questions asked (same as if Kubica hadn't retired last year).

[killem2]

Raises the question, if this had been between massa and alonzo would the stewards had spoken up? Or would they just let the team decide to give positions back?

[scotty]

Raises the question, if this had been between massa and alonzo would the stewards had spoken up? Or would they just let the team decide to give positions back?

Interesting point. You'd surely assume the stewards would let the teams sort themselves out by using common sense... But at the same time, now that team orders are allowed again, i think it might just be a moot point really.