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#231129
Would be great too see Massa going neck and neck with Alonso all season but I must confess I do not see the killer instinct in Massa like I do in Alonso. Hopefully he will prove me wrong :) .


To be fair hes never had a killer instinct, he just had pace in 2008, enough to rival Hamilton all year. Vettel has shown no signs of a killer instinct and hes champion, if he says its the tyres and hes right, then if they sort that out in 2011 Massa will be fine. And of course if Ferrari give him half a chance to compete, rather then put him down every time they can.

:yes:


:yes::yes:


:yes::yes::yes::hehe:
#231460
When does Massa's contract run out ? I hope Kubica joins Ferrari, him and Alonso would be unstoppable with a good car.
#231496
When does Massa's contract run out ? I hope Kubica joins Ferrari, him and Alonso would be unstoppable with a good car.


he signed a two year extension this season i think
#232197
I truly believe that Montezemolo was defending Felipe. If you could take a look to any Italian forum you would discover that most of the tiffossi say that Massa doesn’t deserve to drive a Ferrari any more, and they are saying that almost since the beginning of the season.
Taking a look at what Felipe has done in 2010 I think that a 7 is a very high mark. The maximum Montezemolo could give to him without been ridiculous.
About the tires temperature I believe that both drivers had the same tires and therefore the same problems.
Apart from that, those who say that Massa’s problems were caused for Fernando’s strange maneuvers are a little bit crazy. Massa was at Ferrari some years before Alonso’s arrival. He had advantage over him in everything regarding to the team. He only had to improve his performance, at least, to equal Fernando, but he couldn’t. That’s all.
Next year, we will see what happens.
#232444
I truly believe that Montezemolo was defending Felipe. If you could take a look to any Italian forum you would discover that most of the tiffossi say that Massa doesn’t deserve to drive a Ferrari any more, and they are saying that almost since the beginning of the season.
Taking a look at what Felipe has done in 2010 I think that a 7 is a very high mark. The maximum Montezemolo could give to him without been ridiculous.
About the tires temperature I believe that both drivers had the same tires and therefore the same problems.
Apart from that, those who say that Massa’s problems were caused for Fernando’s strange maneuvers are a little bit crazy. Massa was at Ferrari some years before Alonso’s arrival. He had advantage over him in everything regarding to the team. He only had to improve his performance, at least, to equal Fernando, but he couldn’t. That’s all.
Next year, we will see what happens.


If LDM was defending Felipe he was going a poor way about it.

Yes both drivers have the same tyres but not the same driving style, therefore the effect of the tyres is not the same for each driver.

Alonso demanded number 1 satus at McLaren so its reasonable to expect he demanded the same at ferrari. His behaviour during races where massa was ahead suggests this is true.
#232460
I truly believe that Montezemolo was defending Felipe. If you could take a look to any Italian forum you would discover that most of the tiffossi say that Massa doesn’t deserve to drive a Ferrari any more, and they are saying that almost since the beginning of the season.

They would be correct. In fact, the only justification for keeping him and not Kimi is that he's cheaper. Though quite frankly, you get what you pay for.
#232483
It's possible he was defending him, comparing him with his brother is basically saying he doesn't believe the real Felipe drives like that, so he's saying Massa is inherently good. And making a dig at how alike him and his brother look.
#232491
I truly believe that Montezemolo was defending Felipe. If you could take a look to any Italian forum you would discover that most of the tiffossi say that Massa doesn’t deserve to drive a Ferrari any more, and they are saying that almost since the beginning of the season.
Taking a look at what Felipe has done in 2010 I think that a 7 is a very high mark. The maximum Montezemolo could give to him without been ridiculous.
About the tires temperature I believe that both drivers had the same tires and therefore the same problems.
Apart from that, those who say that Massa’s problems were caused for Fernando’s strange maneuvers are a little bit crazy. Massa was at Ferrari some years before Alonso’s arrival. He had advantage over him in everything regarding to the team. He only had to improve his performance, at least, to equal Fernando, but he couldn’t. That’s all.
Next year, we will see what happens.


If LDM was defending Felipe he was going a poor way about it.

Yes both drivers have the same tyres but not the same driving style, therefore the effect of the tyres is not the same for each driver.

Alonso demanded number 1 satus at McLaren so its reasonable to expect he demanded the same at ferrari. His behaviour during races where massa was ahead suggests this is true.


What else could LDM have said? In fact all of us expected a much better performance from Massa. He has had a good fight with a very fast driver like Kimi in the past. He almost won the WDC with Ferrari in 2008. At the beginning of the year I expected a close fight between him and Alonso along the whole season. Most people believed that.
About the tyres, both are very experienced drivers. The ability to adapt your driving style to the different conditions of the car, the track, the tyres, the weather or whatever, tell us much about the quality of the driver.
Alonso didn’t demand number one status at McLaren in 2007. He just demanded not being the second driver. Everybody from Bernie Ecclestone to the last Briton fan, passing for Charlie Whitting, Ron Dennis, the whole McLaren team and the powerful British Media wanted his wonder boy to win. That’s the real truth.
#232493
Where was Alonso Second driver? if anything up to Monaco Lewis was being treated as the 2nd driver, up to Monaco Alonso was happy as ever with the way things worked. Once Lewis complained about being number 2, quote "I have a number 2 on my car" McLaren didnt favour anyone which is where the s*** started hitting the fan with Alonso.

And Jack Master I thought you left? You made a melodramatic public exist right? So new username or not why?
#232504
Where was Alonso Second driver? if anything up to Monaco Lewis was being treated as the 2nd driver, up to Monaco Alonso was happy as ever with the way things worked. Once Lewis complained about being number 2, quote "I have a number 2 on my car" McLaren didnt favour anyone which is where the s*** started hitting the fan with Alonso.

And Jack Master I thought you left? You made a melodramatic public exist right? So new username or not why?


Alonso and Hamilton never were equally treated. I’ve said before that his wife and friends had to go to the Renault boxes to follow the races because they couldn’t stand the way in what the whole team and its guest loudly supported Lewis against him.
The real turning point was at Monaco, were Lewis was complaining that he hasn’t won the race because the team had favored Alonso and Ron Dennis gave his excuses to the Media for that.
In Hungary Charlie Whiting penalized Alonso for something that, being unfair, was a team’s internal affair. There wasn’t any rule broken.
Alonso became this way more and more a second driver till the point that Ron Dennis said that they were racing against Alonso.
About the melodrama, you’re right, but nobody is perfect, I sincerely apologize. My change of user name is just a technical problem, I hope.
#232510
Where was Alonso Second driver? if anything up to Monaco Lewis was being treated as the 2nd driver, up to Monaco Alonso was happy as ever with the way things worked. Once Lewis complained about being number 2, quote "I have a number 2 on my car" McLaren didnt favour anyone which is where the s*** started hitting the fan with Alonso.

And Jack Master I thought you left? You made a melodramatic public exist right? So new username or not why?


Alonso and Hamilton never were equally treated. I’ve said before that his wife and friends had to go to the Renault boxes to follow the races because they couldn’t stand the way in what the whole team and its guest loudly supported Lewis against him.
The real turning point was at Monaco, were Lewis was complaining that he hasn’t won the race because the team had favored Alonso and Ron Dennis gave his excuses to the Media for that.
In Hungary Charlie Whiting penalized Alonso for something that, being unfair, was a team’s internal affair. There wasn’t any rule broken.
Alonso became this way more and more a second driver till the point that Ron Dennis said that they were racing against Alonso.
About the melodrama, you’re right, but nobody is perfect, I sincerely apologize. My change of user name is just a technical problem, I hope.


Alonso was favoured hugely at Monaco. The reason Mclaren escaped team order punishment was the fact it was monaco, the situation was unique and the team had to give the driveres different strategies to cover the advent if a safety car. It just happens that despite lewis being blazingly fast round there Alonso got the favoured strategy. Lewis complained after which strategies were shared out equally and Alonso kicked off about it.
The Hungary affair was more comlicated than it appeared.
#232514
Where was Alonso Second driver? if anything up to Monaco Lewis was being treated as the 2nd driver, up to Monaco Alonso was happy as ever with the way things worked. Once Lewis complained about being number 2, quote "I have a number 2 on my car" McLaren didnt favour anyone which is where the s*** started hitting the fan with Alonso.

And Jack Master I thought you left? You made a melodramatic public exist right? So new username or not why?


Alonso and Hamilton never were equally treated. I’ve said before that his wife and friends had to go to the Renault boxes to follow the races because they couldn’t stand the way in what the whole team and its guest loudly supported Lewis against him.
The real turning point was at Monaco, were Lewis was complaining that he hasn’t won the race because the team had favored Alonso and Ron Dennis gave his excuses to the Media for that.
In Hungary Charlie Whiting penalized Alonso for something that, being unfair, was a team’s internal affair. There wasn’t any rule broken.
Alonso became this way more and more a second driver till the point that Ron Dennis said that they were racing against Alonso.
About the melodrama, you’re right, but nobody is perfect, I sincerely apologize. My change of user name is just a technical problem, I hope.


Alonso was favoured hugely at Monaco. The reason Mclaren escaped team order punishment was the fact it was monaco, the situation was unique and the team had to give the driveres different strategies to cover the advent if a safety car. It just happens that despite lewis being blazingly fast round there Alonso got the favoured strategy. Lewis complained after which strategies were shared out equally and Alonso kicked off about it.
The Hungary affair was more comlicated than it appeared.


Could you imagine for an instant that Bernie Ecclestone, Max Mosley, Charlie Whiting, Ron Dennis, Martin Whitmarsh and the whole team McLaren were Spaniards and Lewis Hamilton the only Briton in the team? And Fernando Alonso being also Spaniard and having been at McLaren since he was a little boy, after being second at Monaco, began to complain that he had lost in Monaco because his team had favored Lewis. When Lewis had made the pole and had held an advantage of several seconds during the entire race?
What would you have thought about that? What would have the British Media said?
#232517
Where was Alonso Second driver? if anything up to Monaco Lewis was being treated as the 2nd driver, up to Monaco Alonso was happy as ever with the way things worked. Once Lewis complained about being number 2, quote "I have a number 2 on my car" McLaren didnt favour anyone which is where the s*** started hitting the fan with Alonso.

And Jack Master I thought you left? You made a melodramatic public exist right? So new username or not why?


Alonso and Hamilton never were equally treated. I’ve said before that his wife and friends had to go to the Renault boxes to follow the races because they couldn’t stand the way in what the whole team and its guest loudly supported Lewis against him.
The real turning point was at Monaco, were Lewis was complaining that he hasn’t won the race because the team had favored Alonso and Ron Dennis gave his excuses to the Media for that.
In Hungary Charlie Whiting penalized Alonso for something that, being unfair, was a team’s internal affair. There wasn’t any rule broken.
Alonso became this way more and more a second driver till the point that Ron Dennis said that they were racing against Alonso.
About the melodrama, you’re right, but nobody is perfect, I sincerely apologize. My change of user name is just a technical problem, I hope.


Alonso was favoured hugely at Monaco. The reason Mclaren escaped team order punishment was the fact it was monaco, the situation was unique and the team had to give the driveres different strategies to cover the advent if a safety car. It just happens that despite lewis being blazingly fast round there Alonso got the favoured strategy. Lewis complained after which strategies were shared out equally and Alonso kicked off about it.
The Hungary affair was more comlicated than it appeared.


Could you imagine for an instant that Bernie Ecclestone, Max Mosley, Charlie Whiting, Ron Dennis, Martin Whitmarsh and the whole team McLaren were Spaniards and Lewis Hamilton the only Briton in the team? And Fernando Alonso being also Spaniard and having been at McLaren since he was a little boy, after being second at Monaco, began to complain that he had lost in Monaco because his team had favored Lewis. When Lewis had made the pole and had held an advantage of several seconds during the entire race?
What would you have thought about that? What would have the British Media said?


Max mosely hates Ron Dennis' guts so you're coming from a wrong premise there. If Alonso couldnt handle racing for a mostly British team then thats another issues, and its his problem not the teams. Mclaren have handled all nationality drivers in their team, nationality is not an issue. It's a multinational sport with a large proportion of British engineers in all teams. Mclaren will take the best drivers on offer. Whatever you think of the British media(and id hazzard all national tabloids are the same) The drivers have to deal with it.
Alonso was favoured at Monaco that remains a fact.
#232519
I agree with you in that every National Tabloids are the same, even most of the national fans too. In the rest of things we have different opinions. Mosley punished McLaren, not Lewis. Nationality is not an issue when there’s not involved a fast Briton driver grown in the midst of the team. About Monaco……
I imagine we will firmly hold our opinions. Nice to know yours.
#232667
Where was Alonso Second driver? if anything up to Monaco Lewis was being treated as the 2nd driver, up to Monaco Alonso was happy as ever with the way things worked. Once Lewis complained about being number 2, quote "I have a number 2 on my car" McLaren didnt favour anyone which is where the s*** started hitting the fan with Alonso.

And Jack Master I thought you left? You made a melodramatic public exist right? So new username or not why?


Alonso and Hamilton never were equally treated. I’ve said before that his wife and friends had to go to the Renault boxes to follow the races because they couldn’t stand the way in what the whole team and its guest loudly supported Lewis against him.
The real turning point was at Monaco, were Lewis was complaining that he hasn’t won the race because the team had favored Alonso and Ron Dennis gave his excuses to the Media for that.
In Hungary Charlie Whiting penalized Alonso for something that, being unfair, was a team’s internal affair. There wasn’t any rule broken.
Alonso became this way more and more a second driver till the point that Ron Dennis said that they were racing against Alonso.
About the melodrama, you’re right, but nobody is perfect, I sincerely apologize. My change of user name is just a technical problem, I hope.


Alonso was favoured hugely at Monaco. The reason Mclaren escaped team order punishment was the fact it was monaco, the situation was unique and the team had to give the driveres different strategies to cover the advent if a safety car. It just happens that despite lewis being blazingly fast round there Alonso got the favoured strategy. Lewis complained after which strategies were shared out equally and Alonso kicked off about it.
The Hungary affair was more comlicated than it appeared.


Could you imagine for an instant that Bernie Ecclestone, Max Mosley, Charlie Whiting, Ron Dennis, Martin Whitmarsh and the whole team McLaren were Spaniards and Lewis Hamilton the only Briton in the team? And Fernando Alonso being also Spaniard and having been at McLaren since he was a little boy, after being second at Monaco, began to complain that he had lost in Monaco because his team had favored Lewis. When Lewis had made the pole and had held an advantage of several seconds during the entire race?
What would you have thought about that? What would have the British Media said?


Max mosely hates Ron Dennis' guts so you're coming from a wrong premise there. If Alonso couldnt handle racing for a mostly British team then thats another issues, and its his problem not the teams. Mclaren have handled all nationality drivers in their team, nationality is not an issue. It's a multinational sport with a large proportion of British engineers in all teams. Mclaren will take the best drivers on offer. Whatever you think of the British media(and id hazzard all national tabloids are the same) The drivers have to deal with it.
Alonso was favoured at Monaco that remains a fact.


i think that the main problem was that alonso wasnt getting what he thought he was getting in the deal he signed in the middle of 2005, but then i dont think almost anyone could have foreseen how good lewis was and is but then i still feel that if alonso had got his head straight, then he may have won the title, but there we go
Last edited by Robert12010 on 04 Jan 11, 20:43, edited 1 time in total.
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