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[kerc]

I'm sorry, fans. Alonso is a fantastic driver, no question about it, but he's also a vortex of problems and controversy no matter what team he is in. That speaks a lot about his personality, demeanor, and how he treats others and expects to be treated.

The vortex is just like a dance, it takes two to Tango. Actually WGAF about what the drivers do other than produce results, thats all the team cares about?

True, but it also takes someone to be really obnoxious to be in trouble or causing controversy everywhere.

Yet the vortex this forum feeds on is controversy, kinda redundant in the whole of things imo.

What did he do to Minardi?

He was a rookie, that explains everything.

Well, care to explain it to me?

Lack of an inflated ego and sense of entitlement at that point.

A few other drivers could be included in your list aswell not just Alonso .

Sure, but we're talking about Fernando, right?

* reads thread subject *

Yup.

[vaptin]

That's not everywhere and every team he has been in then is it?

Nor is the rest of your argument particularly good, correlation doesn't equal causation.

[kerc]

I'm sorry, fans. Alonso is a fantastic driver, no question about it, but he's also a vortex of problems and controversy no matter what team he is in. That speaks a lot about his personality, demeanor, and how he treats others and expects to be treated.

The vortex is just like a dance, it takes two to Tango. Actually WGAF about what the drivers do other than produce results, thats all the team cares about?

True, but it also takes someone to be really obnoxious to be in trouble or causing controversy everywhere.

The only controversy Alonso has had was at McLaren. I’m pretty sure that Renault and Ferrari are more than happy for having had him as a driver, but as I can see you are unable to forget the McLaren affair. You’re blaming him for everything that happened at that time but I think there were many people involved who took wrong decisions as well.

There's a saying from where I come from: Cuando el río suena, es porque agua trae. He also reminds me of a politician I knew about--everyone around him was accused of corruption and even jailed, but never him. In fact, the guy is still active politically. Could it be possible that he had nothing to do with everything that happened around him? Hardly.

Same deal with Fernando. Crashgate, Spygate, team orders, all the stuff he's being around, he definitely must have had something to do with it all. Plus being all-around grumbly, fighty, and waving his hands at everyone that doesn't bend to his wishes.

I tell you--I admire him as a driver. He's the most complete driver in the grid right now. I love how he can take a car that might not be the best, grab it by the horns, and make it do what he wants. I love to watch him drive, he's one of the drivers that's keeping F1 alive. No one can deny this.

But as a person? All I've seen so far of him leaves much to be desired.

[texasmr2]

That's not everywhere and every team he has been in then is it?

Nor is the rest of your argument particularly good, correlation doesn't equal causation.

Me or Kerc? You know I get confused easily and need clarification.

[vaptin]

That's not everywhere and every team he has been in then is it?

Nor is the rest of your argument particularly good, correlation doesn't equal causation.

Me or Kerc? You know I get confused easily and need clarification.

Kerc

[Jack Master]

There's a saying from where I come from: Cuando el río suena, es porque agua trae. He also reminds me of a politician I knew about--everyone around him was accused of corruption and even jailed, but never him. In fact, the guy is still active politically. Could it be possible that he had nothing to do with everything that happened around him? Hardly.

Same deal with Fernando. Crashgate, Spygate, team orders, all the stuff he's being around, he definitely must have had something to do with it all. Plus being all-around grumbly, fighty, and waving his hands at everyone that doesn't bend to his wishes.

I tell you--I admire him as a driver. He's the most complete driver in the grid right now. I love how he can take a car that might not be the best, grab it by the horns, and make it do what he wants. I love to watch him drive, he's one of the drivers that's keeping F1 alive. No one can deny this.

But as a person? All I've seen so far of him leaves much to be desired.

The saying is “Cuando el río suena agua lleva” at least in my country. I think the perception about Alonso changed for most people after the McLaren affair. Most people that don’t like Alonso hate him since then and since then everything that Alonso does or says, have to pass through the filter of hate and that makes the perception of him worsening. He makes mistakes, but far less than others that when commit the same mistakes nobody says anything.

[kerc]

There's a saying from where I come from: Cuando el río suena, es porque agua trae. He also reminds me of a politician I knew about--everyone around him was accused of corruption and even jailed, but never him. In fact, the guy is still active politically. Could it be possible that he had nothing to do with everything that happened around him? Hardly.

Same deal with Fernando. Crashgate, Spygate, team orders, all the stuff he's being around, he definitely must have had something to do with it all. Plus being all-around grumbly, fighty, and waving his hands at everyone that doesn't bend to his wishes.

I tell you--I admire him as a driver. He's the most complete driver in the grid right now. I love how he can take a car that might not be the best, grab it by the horns, and make it do what he wants. I love to watch him drive, he's one of the drivers that's keeping F1 alive. No one can deny this.

But as a person? All I've seen so far of him leaves much to be desired.

The saying is “Cuando el río suena agua lleva” at least in my country. I think the perception about Alonso changed for most people after the McLaren affair. Most people that don’t like Alonso hate him since then and since then everything that Alonso does or says, have to pass through the filter of hate and that makes the perception of him worsening. He makes mistakes, but far less than others that when commit the same mistakes nobody says anything.

I don't hate Alonso, not by any means. Actually, I would look forward to meeting him at the 2012 GP here in Texas...

[Jack Master]

There's a saying from where I come from: Cuando el río suena, es porque agua trae. He also reminds me of a politician I knew about--everyone around him was accused of corruption and even jailed, but never him. In fact, the guy is still active politically. Could it be possible that he had nothing to do with everything that happened around him? Hardly.

Same deal with Fernando. Crashgate, Spygate, team orders, all the stuff he's being around, he definitely must have had something to do with it all. Plus being all-around grumbly, fighty, and waving his hands at everyone that doesn't bend to his wishes.

I tell you--I admire him as a driver. He's the most complete driver in the grid right now. I love how he can take a car that might not be the best, grab it by the horns, and make it do what he wants. I love to watch him drive, he's one of the drivers that's keeping F1 alive. No one can deny this.

But as a person? All I've seen so far of him leaves much to be desired.

The saying is “Cuando el río suena agua lleva” at least in my country. I think the perception about Alonso changed for most people after the McLaren affair. Most people that don’t like Alonso hate him since then and since then everything that Alonso does or says, have to pass through the filter of hate and that makes the perception of him worsening. He makes mistakes, but far less than others that when commit the same mistakes nobody says anything.

I don't hate Alonso, not by any means. Actually, I would look forward to meeting him at the 2012 GP here in Texas...

If you have time, take a look at the first pages of the thread and you’ll know what I think about the McLaren affair. Hasta luego compañero.

[F1er]

Like I said before I rooted 4 the guy! My breaking point was Indy when he waved his fists at the pitwall. Hami won that race, beat him fair&square! After that I lost respect for him as he doesnt like a fair fight,same with Massa! He's been waving that fist one too many times!
Christiano Ronaldo is a talent as well,just too many anthics for my liking! Same goes for FA!

It has nothing to do with HATE
If he wants to have drinks,talk about how great Barca is,fine with me! I'd still tell him shut up & drive

[What's Burning?]

He was very fast and he still is, but he was a rookie in Formula 1 and he displayed it on his entire splendor losing the WDC because he couldn’t cope with pressure at the last races, something he still hasn’t improved.

You don't have to be a rookie to lose a WDC the last race of a season. Two time world champions do that even though they've had tons of time to improve.

Please, don’t be unfair. Lewis headed the championship for 17 points with 20 points left and he scored 0 points because he couldn’t cope with pressure.
The 2010 last five races have shown what a kind of a champion Alonso is. He didn’t win the WDC for anybody’s fault but him.
If you don’t see that is because you didn’t want to do it.

Alonso what the ONLY driver in Abu Dhabi that had sole control of his destiny. Fairness goes both ways... so be very careful when you make comparisons. I wasn't the one bringing up Lewis Hamilton's rookie mistakes, just pointing out the fact that the same argument you make for Lewis in 07 can be made for Fernando in 2010.

[F1er]

2007 the team messed up in China,and the car in Brazil !!! Blame Lewis all you want,in Brazil he lost positions and overtook a bunch of drivers! After gearbox fiasco he was 18th and finished 7th!

Alonso followed 1 driver for 40+ laps ....a rookie...........Lewis was also a rookie doing the opposite! Passing people!

[Jack Master]

Like I said before I rooted 4 the guy! My breaking point was Indy when he waved his fists at the pitwall. Hami won that race, beat him fair&square! After that I lost respect for him as he doesnt like a fair fight,same with Massa! He's been waving that fist one too many times!
Christiano Ronaldo is a talent as well,just too many anthics for my liking! Same goes for FA!

It has nothing to do with HATE
If he wants to have drinks,talk about how great Barca is,fine with me! I'd still tell him shut up & drive

Do you know why did Alonso wave his fist at the pitwall in Indy? Do you remember when he tried to overtake Hami and he made a sudden and irregular movement towards Alonso that could have produced an accident if Fernando didn’t brake. Alonso was faster but he couldn’t overtake Hami without the risk of a collision between the two McLarens. If you don’t remember this point try to get a copy of the race. This whole year the FIA and Charlie Waiting were allowing to Hami any kind of tricks and maneuvers that he wanted to do. Despite that he didn’t won the WDC because he behaved as the rookie he was during the two last races. What a pity for McLaren.
In Germany with Massa was exactly the same, Alonso tried to overtake Massa because he was faster and Massa moved suddenly his car towards him and Alonso had to brake to avoid a collision. It was after that when the team said to Massa that Fernando was faster.
About the Barça you have no idea either. Is the most obvious case of doping in the history of soccer and the same applies for the Spanish team. Get a brain. Take a look at the Barça players. Please, wake up.

[Jack Master]

He was very fast and he still is, but he was a rookie in Formula 1 and he displayed it on his entire splendor losing the WDC because he couldn’t cope with pressure at the last races, something he still hasn’t improved.

You don't have to be a rookie to lose a WDC the last race of a season. Two time world champions do that even though they've had tons of time to improve.

Please, don’t be unfair. Lewis headed the championship for 17 points with 20 points left and he scored 0 points because he couldn’t cope with pressure.
The 2010 last five races have shown what a kind of a champion Alonso is. He didn’t win the WDC for anybody’s fault but him.
If you don’t see that is because you didn’t want to do it.

Alonso what the ONLY driver in Abu Dhabi that had sole control of his destiny. Fairness goes both ways... so be very careful when you make comparisons. I wasn't the one bringing up Lewis Hamilton's rookie mistakes, just pointing out the fact that the same argument you make for Lewis in 07 can be made for Fernando in 2010.

Why was Alonso in control of his own destiny in Abu Dhabi? Because Lewis had ruined all his options driving as a rookie the fourth previous races.
Was Alonso’s fault losing the WDC at Abu Dhabi? Be serious Burning, please.

[Jack Master]

2007 the team messed up in China,and the car in Brazil !!! Blame Lewis all you want,in Brazil he lost positions and overtook a bunch of drivers! After gearbox fiasco he was 18th and finished 7th!

Alonso followed 1 driver for 40+ laps ....a rookie...........Lewis was also a rookie doing the opposite! Passing people!

If McLaren would have given Alonso a competitive car for the last races in 2007 you can be sure they would have won the WDC, but they chose Hamilton….Sorry, Raikkonen.

[F1er]

So by your analogy if the car infront of you is slower and you CANT pass it "WAVE YOUR FIST" and they should let you through!
Too bad Alonso has only one teammate because if 22 drivers were (one big happy team) I'm sure he'd convince them all he's faster then them!

As for Barca I'm not going there coz thats the thing I've heard in my life