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[Jamie]

Favouritism.

The Ferrari team has achieved unparalleled success in Formula One. Ferrari cars and Ferrari drivers have also won the Mille Miglia 8 times, the Targa Florio 7 times, and the 24 hours of Le Mans 9 times. In F1, the Italian team has the unique distinction of owning nearly all significant records (as of the 2008 Brazilian Grand Prix), including:

* Most constructor championships: 16
* Most driver championships: 15
* Most wins (all-time): 209[1]
* Most wins (season): 15
* Most podiums (all-time): 622
* Most podiums (season): 29
* Most pole positions (all-time): 203
* Most points (all-time): 4,925.27
* Most points (season): 262
* Most fastest laps (all-time): 218
* Highest winning percentage: ~26% (for teams with at least 10 wins)
* Most F1 fatalities: 7 (4 race, 1 qualifying, 2 testing)

In 2004, Ferrari also surpassed Ford as the most successful F1 engine manufacturer, with 182 wins (to Ford's 176 wins). Due to the availability of the Cosworth V8 to private teams, a total of 6,639 Ford-powered cars were entered between 1967 and 2004, compared to 1,979 starts for Ferrari and Petronas-badged engines during the same period.



-VB

[Jamie]

Also, then you might add, Kimi Raikkonen won the title within his first year within Ferrari?
Now that must show that Ferari offered him the Ultimate packge if McLaren couldn't?

Then you hve Alonso? Renault offered him the Ultimate Package?
All he could do is tie in EQUALLY to Lewis.

SO in theory? no one was on top in 2007.

Only the ICEMAN?

-VB

[Gaz]

Also, then you might add, Kimi Raikkonen won the title within his first year within Ferrari?
Now that must show that Ferari offered him the Ultimate packge if McLaren couldn't?

Then you hve Alonso? Renault offered him the Ultimate Package?
All he could do is tie in EQUALLY to Lewis.

SO in theory? no one was on top in 2007.

Only the ICEMAN?

-VB

Who got lucky and was s*** in 2008

made your point well there.

[Gaz]

Favouritism.

The Ferrari team has achieved unparalleled success in Formula One. Ferrari cars and Ferrari drivers have also won the Mille Miglia 8 times, the Targa Florio 7 times, and the 24 hours of Le Mans 9 times. In F1, the Italian team has the unique distinction of owning nearly all significant records (as of the 2008 Brazilian Grand Prix), including:

* Most constructor championships: 16
* Most driver championships: 15
* Most wins (all-time): 209[1]
* Most wins (season): 15
* Most podiums (all-time): 622
* Most podiums (season): 29
* Most pole positions (all-time): 203
* Most points (all-time): 4,925.27
* Most points (season): 262
* Most fastest laps (all-time): 218
* Highest winning percentage: ~26% (for teams with at least 10 wins)
* Most F1 fatalities: 7 (4 race, 1 qualifying, 2 testing)

In 2004, Ferrari also surpassed Ford as the most successful F1 engine manufacturer, with 182 wins (to Ford's 176 wins). Due to the availability of the Cosworth V8 to private teams, a total of 6,639 Ford-powered cars were entered between 1967 and 2004, compared to 1,979 starts for Ferrari and Petronas-badged engines during the same period.



-VB

Look i've had this argument before with AKR Ferrari has more records yes good for them but they have also been competing over 10 years longer than Mclaren and also recive alot more money from the FIA.

But You'll never do a 1988...thanks

[scotty]

Also, then you might add, Kimi Raikkonen won the title within his first year within Ferrari?
Now that must show that Ferari offered him the Ultimate packge if McLaren couldn't?

Then you hve Alonso? Renault offered him the Ultimate Package?
All he could do is tie in EQUALLY to Lewis.

SO in theory? no one was on top in 2007.

Only the ICEMAN?

-VB

Who got lucky and was s*** in 2008

made your point well there.

Got lucky in '07? He had two mechanical problems when he was in high points-scoring positions (leading in Barcelona i seem to remember) and dominated so many races... your logic is unbelievable.

[JB-FTW-09]

McLaren are bitter failures mainly in this sport and have only ever made the WDC thats it? that is not as impresive as the Ferrari.
They got last season from a flue that fell weirdly into his hands? This sport is taking a major turn around and next season you WONT
be so lucky.

[Gaz]

Also, then you might add, Kimi Raikkonen won the title within his first year within Ferrari?
Now that must show that Ferari offered him the Ultimate packge if McLaren couldn't?

Then you hve Alonso? Renault offered him the Ultimate Package?
All he could do is tie in EQUALLY to Lewis.

SO in theory? no one was on top in 2007.

Only the ICEMAN?

-VB

Who got lucky and was s*** in 2008

made your point well there.

Got lucky in '07? He had two mechanical problems when he was in high points-scoring positions (leading in Barcelona i seem to remember) and dominated so many races... your logic is unbelievable.

Oh and the fact Lewis's gear box died on the last race wasn't lucky for Kimi?

how is that bad logic?

[Gaz]

McLaren are bitter failures mainly in this sport and have only ever made the WDC thats it? that is not as impresive as the Ferrari.
They got last season from a flue that fell weirdly into his hands? This sport is taking a major turn around and next season you WONT
be so lucky.

New to F1 then?

McLaren: WCC 1974, 1984, 1985, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1998, 1999, 2007
McLaren: WDC 1974, 1976, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1998, 1999, 2008

[scotty]

Also, then you might add, Kimi Raikkonen won the title within his first year within Ferrari?
Now that must show that Ferari offered him the Ultimate packge if McLaren couldn't?

Then you hve Alonso? Renault offered him the Ultimate Package?
All he could do is tie in EQUALLY to Lewis.

SO in theory? no one was on top in 2007.

Only the ICEMAN?

-VB

Who got lucky and was s*** in 2008

made your point well there.

Got lucky in '07? He had two mechanical problems when he was in high points-scoring positions (leading in Barcelona i seem to remember) and dominated so many races... your logic is unbelievable.

Oh and the fact Lewis's gear box died on the last race wasn't lucky for Kimi?

how is that bad logic?

Didn't end his race though did it. It basically seems like you are suggesting that Raikkonen only won because of Hamilton's gearbox problem, yet you are seemingly forgetting Raikkonen's own misfortunes. That is what i can't understand with your logic.

[Denthúl]

Also, then you might add, Kimi Raikkonen won the title within his first year within Ferrari?
Now that must show that Ferari offered him the Ultimate packge if McLaren couldn't?

Then you hve Alonso? Renault offered him the Ultimate Package?
All he could do is tie in EQUALLY to Lewis.

SO in theory? no one was on top in 2007.

Only the ICEMAN?

-VB

Who got lucky and was s*** in 2008

made your point well there.

Got lucky in '07? He had two mechanical problems when he was in high points-scoring positions (leading in Barcelona i seem to remember) and dominated so many races... your logic is unbelievable.

Oh and the fact Lewis's gear box died on the last race wasn't lucky for Kimi?

how is that bad logic?

Didn't end his race though did it. It basically seems like you are suggesting that Raikkonen only won because of Hamilton's gearbox problem, yet you are seemingly forgetting Raikkonen's own misfortunes. That is what i can't understand with your logic.

Like the team sending Kimi and Felipe out on inters at Fuji despite being instructed to use full wets by Charlie whiting?

[Gilles 27]

Kimi is just about the unluckiest guy in F1 atm (Webber and Bourdais are also in with a shout), he got lucky in Brazil in 2007 but he had saved up for that one!

[Denthúl]

Kimi is just about the unluckiest guy in F1 atm (Webber and Bourdais are also in with a shout), he got lucky in Brazil in 2007 but he had saved up for that one!

I think I worked it out in a thread a while back. Kimi's luck is marginally worse than that of Mark Webber and Johnny Herbert. Or at least, was at the time. Since Mark got knocked down in his own charity event, I'd say the title goes back to him...

[scotty]

Didn't end his race though did it. It basically seems like you are suggesting that Raikkonen only won because of Hamilton's gearbox problem, yet you are seemingly forgetting Raikkonen's own misfortunes. That is what i can't understand with your logic.

Like the team sending Kimi and Felipe out on inters at Fuji despite being instructed to use full wets by Charlie whiting?

Raikkonen still dragged himself back up to 3rd despite basically starting the race last... in those conditions too.

[Gaz]

Also, then you might add, Kimi Raikkonen won the title within his first year within Ferrari?
Now that must show that Ferari offered him the Ultimate packge if McLaren couldn't?

Then you hve Alonso? Renault offered him the Ultimate Package?
All he could do is tie in EQUALLY to Lewis.

SO in theory? no one was on top in 2007.

Only the ICEMAN?

-VB

Who got lucky and was s*** in 2008

made your point well there.

Got lucky in '07? He had two mechanical problems when he was in high points-scoring positions (leading in Barcelona i seem to remember) and dominated so many races... your logic is unbelievable.

Oh and the fact Lewis's gear box died on the last race wasn't lucky for Kimi?

how is that bad logic?

Didn't end his race though did it. It basically seems like you are suggesting that Raikkonen only won because of Hamilton's gearbox problem, yet you are seemingly forgetting Raikkonen's own misfortunes. That is what i can't understand with your logic.

No i'm not saying that but If Lewis hadn't of had that problem the chances are he would of been champion.

Not saying Kimi didn't deserve it i'm just saying it was a stroke of luck for Kimi that Lewis had that issue.

Eitherway the main point in 2008 was Kimi was WELL off form.

[headless]

Whats prompted me to ask this question is that i stumbled across a ranking of the best drivers for the 2009 season on

http://www.rankopedia.com/ZoneID=3/1881 ... ship-(2009)/Step1/15304.htm

and they have voted Lewis Hamilton first and Robert kubica second (which has suprised me)

Hmmm. How to phrase this. Ok...

What language is that site written in? English

What country is Hamilton from? England

Draw your own conclusions.

Have done