FORUMula1.com

[A.Pulverizer]

Kimi fan.

[f1ea]

As much as Massa has improved over the past twelve months Raikkonen surely is the better driver. For one he is a World Champion whereas Massa is not. That isn't the deciding factor though.

Being a former world champion makes very little difference in the heat of the battle. Specially with how close it has been for the past seasons, and the special conditions that surrounded Mclaren in Kimi's title run. It MAY help him with Ferrari's disposition towards him... and i think this is much more help and may well be the better deciding factor, if it happens at all

We can't use Statistics, but when you look back at their careers, Kimi has not only had more success, but has put in the better drives. Remember Massa's driving style at Sauber was always questioned by the likes of Martin Brundle?

Massa's style during the sauber days? Martin Brundle's opinion?
Where do these two come in on the fight for '09 WDC???

[Jamie]

For me? Mind my own Personal Opinions Kimi could come back this season? as he doesn't have many people beieving in him, 2007 came to him from luck. Last season Massa had something to prove nd so he does this season too. It will be very intresting to see who out paces who in Oz, but at the moment Schumi believes the Iceman could be back in business. But still Massa is still a huge competitior and is 1 to watchout for.

-VB

[madbrad]

Kimi had the most epic on track battle with Hammy since 1979

I dont agree.

OK a little overstatement for effect, but you know what I mean.

[Gilles 27]

If Kimi is at his best then Massa won't trouble him. It will come down to Ferrari in the end though. They are yet to produce a car that suits Kimi more so than Massa and last season actually developed the car away from Kimi. If Ferrari make the same mistakes next year and alienate Kimi, then Massa will do better.
If Ferrari are able to produce a front running car that is developed around Raikkonen rather than Massa then Raikkonen will be very hard to stop for the title.

That is a huge 'if' though. Massa has a lot of friends at Ferrari

[Jamie]

Massa i think when it comes down to tatics is the man?
iIf it was raining and no one dared move Kimi would risk it all.
If it was a set race and no body could move up Massa would be able
to climb it a little

Agression & Intelligence.

Thats what makes them dominating Team.


-VB

[cap-dude]

If Kimi is at his best then Massa won't trouble him. It will come down to Ferrari in the end though. They are yet to produce a car that suits Kimi more so than Massa and last season actually developed the car away from Kimi. If Ferrari make the same mistakes next year and alienate Kimi, then Massa will do better.
If Ferrari are able to produce a front running car that is developed around Raikkonen rather than Massa then Raikkonen will be very hard to stop for the title.

That is a huge 'if' though. Massa has a lot of friends at Ferrari

Last year the car was suspose to be developed around Kimi. I blame Kimi for last year.

It's been said though that Massa is being used as more of a reference point this year. Which is great seeing as he deserves it after last year.
Really, Kimi and Massa are close competitors and two drivers of equal talent. However, Massa is more of a quali specialist whilst Kimi is more towards race pace. Who will actually come out on top this year is extremely hard to say because they generally are so close until 2/3rds into the season. 2007 we saw some car faliures with Massa and Kimi break away, whilst in 2008 Kimi went through a period of poor quali results and then 4 races without any points due to spins and engine blow outs.

[8-ball]

I expect Massa to start strong but fade off near the back end of the season just when Kimi is starting to surge. If Kimi is on top form Massa would not get anyway near him.

[scotty]

Depends who the car suits... although i am still confused by people who say Raikkonen 'no longer cares' and all that, i would like to know exactly what they are basing that on. His problems at times last year were greatly over exaggerated! The only races he didn't really turn up for were the 3 race stretch of Germany/Hungary/Valencia... but even he said he was having trouble with the car updates they had brought in at the time.

[f1ea]

Last year the car was suspose to be developed around Kimi. I blame Kimi for last year.

It's been said though that Massa is being used as more of a reference point this year. Which is great seeing as he deserves it after last year.
Really, Kimi and Massa are close competitors and two drivers of equal talent. However, Massa is more of a quali specialist whilst Kimi is more towards race pace. Who will actually come out on top this year is extremely hard to say because they generally are so close until 2/3rds into the season. 2007 we saw some car faliures with Massa and Kimi break away, whilst in 2008 Kimi went through a period of poor quali results and then 4 races without any points due to spins and engine blow outs.

The car may have been developed with Kimi in mind, but the tires weren't; and his problems were mostly because of them. So I dont think we should blindly blame Kimi, as other drivers were also caught in a similar issue that proved to be really hard to solve... the thing is, with Massa being in the fight, Ferrari couldnt simply go all out behind Kimi and modify too much of the car just for him (specially without being sure if whatever they changed would have been of any help at all)...

Furthermore, Massa is not on equal talent with Kimi. His style allows him to be very good in qualy, but he's also very good in races, just not as good as Kimi can be. Kimi is a better driver overall (at least so far), but perhaps his personality make it difficult to get help, and to get the people around him working in his favour, or he actually doesnt care, which i really doubt...

[IceManpjn]

Who do you think will be the most succesful driver for Ferrari this season?

I've gotta go with Massa.

[Bruno_Brazil]

WDC

Massa : 0
Raikkonen : 1
-------------------------------------------

Massa : 35 Races
Raikkonen : 35 Races
------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------
Massa: 9 Victories -> 26 %
Raikkonen : 8 Victories -> 23%
-------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------
Massa : 12 poles -> 35%
Raikkonen : 5 poles -> 14%
------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------
Raikkonen : 16 fastest laps -> 46 %
Massa : 9 fastest laps -> 26%
----------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------------------
Massa : finished ahead Raikkonen 18 times
Raikkonen : finished ahead Massa 17 times ------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------------------
Raikkonen : 21 podiums
Massa : 20 podiums
------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------------------
Massa : 191 points
Raikkonen : 185 points
------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Raikkonen : 7 DNF -> 20 %
Massa : 5 DNF -> 15%
-----------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------------

Qualify (saturday)

Massa : 21 times faster than Raikkonen
Raikkonen : 14 times faster than Massa

-----------------------------------------------------


make your bets...I'll go with Massa.

[8-ball]

Massa may have better stats, but Raikkonen has a WDC and Massa doesn't. The only stat that matters

[Bruno_Brazil]

Massa may have better stats, but Raikkonen has a WDC and Massa doesn't. The only stat that matters

Not really.
Ronnie Peterson, Gilles Villeneuve, Stirling Moss, John Watson etc have never got a WDC.


does it make them worse than hum...Damon Hill ??

I don't think so.

I think that look just for one kind of numbers(WDC in this case) when you have more numbers to analyze means call yourself as blind.

[EwanM]

Massa may have better stats, but Raikkonen has a WDC and Massa doesn't. The only stat that matters

Not really.
Ronnie Peterson, Giles Villeneuve, Stirling Moss, Jon Watson etc have never got a WDC.


does it make them worse than hum...Damon Hill ??

I don't think so.

I think that look just for one kind of numbers(WDC in this case) when you have more numbers to analyze means call yourself as blind.

Exactly. "YOU TOOK THE WORDS RIGHT OUTTA MY MOUTH"