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Just as it says...
User avatar
By Dutchcruijff
#86761
What's your opinion on the war? Israel in the right or wrong? Are they right to say that they had "no alternative" and to deny any peace talks?

Or are the Palestinians at fault due to Hamas and their continuous bombing of Israeli cities?
#86763
I don't know what media coverage of the war is like in the rest of the world, but in the UK the BBC (Biased Broadcasting Company) are spouting their usual politically-correct trash, failing to draw attention to many facts: first, that Hamas had been breaching the terms of the ceasefire from quite some time now by firing rockets into Israel; second, that Hamas had been smuggling long-range missiles into Gaza via underground passages; third, that the Israelis were in talks with Palestinian leaders over the past few weeks trying to get the ceasefire reinstated; forth, that Hamas has been hiding its munitions etc. in civilian areas; fifth, that Hamas is a group of religious fanatics and political extremists - people with whom it's very tricky to reason; and sixth, that Hamas' leaders have fled Gaza like rats up a spout when things became nasty. When you consider these sorts of things, Israel suddenly does not look quite so bad, does it?
User avatar
By EwanM
#86764
Israel never did look bad in my opinion, but Id agree I had to look deeper into it to make a decision.

Certainly Israel is the western Hub of that area of the Middle East, and flexing its military might is a necessity.
However, there will be many innocent casualties in Gaza, so its a double edged sword
#86765
It's deeply regrettable there will be civilian casualties, but with Hamas storing their weapons and using them against Israel in civilian areas, it was always going to happen. Hamas will be loving the situation anyway. They will be able to create some juicy propaganda for their regime and whip up tensions between Jews and Arabs for many years to come. It's in Hamas' interests to string out the conflict in the Middle East for as long as possible.

I agree that it's not a surprise to see the United States and United Kingdom back Israel. Both countries need as many friends as they can get in the Middle East.
#86774
Well apparently, not from me, but "Israelis patrol Gaza regularly in gunships, and killing at the same time".

Can someone just clear this up for me, it's about whether or not Israel (Yisrael) was a Jewish state originally? It's been described as a desert land with only 2 major cities which can't be labelled as a state.
User avatar
By EwanM
#86775
Well the land of Israel stretches back to biblical times, but Israel itself did not become an independent state until 1948. Previous to that it was part of British Palestine.
The UN got their wishes, and wanted to split the land into two states.
#86776
Well the land of Israel stretches back to biblical times, but Israel itself did not become an independent state until 1948. Previous to that it was part of British Palestine.
The UN got their wishes, and wanted to split the land into two states.

Sorry my mistake, I should have mentioned just before the Roman Catholics drove the Jews out.
#86778
To fully understand the matter, one has to go back thousands of years into history. Thousands of years BC, the first Israeli kingdoms are supposed to have been set up in the region and God promised the land to the Jews as their homeland. The land, however, was invaded by many peoples of the following centuries and millennia - Muslims, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, Christian Crusaders et al. - and the Jews were persecuted and many were forced to leave their supposed homeland. The British were the next major power to rule the Middle East and promised to return the Jews to their homeland. The situation was tricky, though. The Arabs now regarded the land as theirs and saw the Jews as invaders, so the trouble flared up. In 1947, the British and UN decided the best thing to do was create two states, one for the Arabs and one for the Jews.
#86781
fifth, that Hamas is a group of religious fanatics and political extremists - people with whom it's very tricky to reason;

A perfect description of the Jews as well :rolleyes:
#86792
To fully understand the matter, one has to go back thousands of years into history. Thousands of years BC, the first Israeli kingdoms are supposed to have been set up in the region and God promised the land to the Jews as their homeland.

1) Israel Is Not A Fulfillment Of Biblical Prophecy: The appellation “Israel” in the Bible primarily refers to the “faithful” who make up the “Church.”

The “Church” as described by St Paul in Chapter 9 of his Epistle To The Romans is made up of the “remnant” of the Jews and the “Gentiles” of the nations. Together, as St Paul writes in his Epistle To The Ephesians, are fused into being “one new man” known as “Christians.”

Plus, to say that god promised the land to them; which god? You see, I don't believe in gods. And most of the other people who also have a claim to this land have a different god.

Many people point to some mystical past and say 'that's how it was, and that's how it should be- it's their land and only our interference has changed this'.

But the reality is that between 1050 and 920 bc, the Hebrews managed to hold the land now referred to as Isreal from other people who also had a claim to it, and had 3 kings through this period, Saul, David and Soloman (who had 700 wives and sold his people down the river in his persuit of wealth).
Within 100 years of Solomans death there was not a remnant of the Hebrew state. So to base a prior claim to the land on 120 years of rule, 3000 years ago, when it was taken then from other tribes then, is ridiculous.



'Repatriation' started around the time of the Russian revolution. The first small settlements in Palestine started in 1870, but these were very small and numbered hundreds. (Jewish Orthodoxy started in 1820). Russian Jews were forced to leave Russia with approximately 2 million going to the US (hence Americas interest), and a few hundred thousand going to Palestine.
By the time of the partition, the Jews in Palestine numbered about 600,000, compared to 1,300,000 Palestinions, and the Jews owned about 6% of the land, yet the UN gave them 55% of the land, generally the more fertile areas, and sent the Palestinions off their own land.

In 1948, the Jews then invaded further lands, to take their holdings up to about 75%. Even though this was illegal, they have kept this land, and since, invaded further.

Jews have been continually persecuted in Europe, and it was only about 140 years ago that Hebrew started to be spoken again and Hebrew art was rediscovered. Poland was the only country where Jews had the same rights as everyone else.
Generally, European attitude to Jews was deplorable, and Europe has further felt the guilt of the holocaust and the pogromes, but to give someone elses land to Jews to compensate for these crimes and inaction to stop them is not correct.

America funds Israel with over $3 dollars a year of arms money, and the UN stands back and allows them to use these arms to commit genocide against the indigenous peoples of this area. By far, the vast amounts of the settlers are of European descent. They have NO CLAIM to this land.
How would you feel?

You'd do everything to get your land back. Everything and anything.
#86797
I heard a joke after the twin towers attack.

A man is walking with his son in Manhatten and his son says 'Daddy, what's that statue there?'

'That son, is a tribute to all our brave patriots who died on 9/11'

'What was nine eleven?'

His father answers 'Nine eleven was the date terrorist's flew aircraft into the twin towers'

'What were the twin towers daddy?'

'The twin towers were the centre of the worlds financial trading- the Muslims were trying to destroy our country'

The son turns to him ' Daddy, what's a muslim?'

That's what will happen.
#86798

America funds Israel with over $3 dollars a year of arms money,


Ha, you wouldn't even get a BB gun for that :P

It's more like $3b.
#86799
my view is its just more Religious BS and nothing will ever change in that region until both sides kill each other!

:yes:
#86801

America funds Israel with over $3 dollars a year of arms money,


Ha, you wouldn't even get a BB gun for that :P

It's more like $3b.


Sorry, that's what I meant. :banghead:

A you said- It's all just religios BS. That's one of the reasons I don't believe in god. It's all BS.

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