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[Flynn]

So, another year, another couple of records broken and extended for Sebastian Loeb then. No one can match him for sheer pace and consistancy. I'm surprised there is not a thread about this already. In my opinion, Sebastian Loeb was champion in 2003 as well. He would have got good points in Turkey if his team hadn't fueled him too little and he would have won in Britain if you wasn't told to ease off. This 5th championship simply confirms that he would have taken 2003 as well.

[EwanM]

There is no denying that Loeb is a fantastic talent and up there with the best on statistics alone. However I cannot help feel that his WRC titles are slightly tainted due to the lack of clear cut opposition. The only season Marcus Gronholm gave him a proper run was in his final year and even then Gronholm wasn't able to fend him off. I think 2007 proved Loeb's class. However previous to that and even this year he really wasn't pushed hard enough. Sordo - to be blunt shouldn't be in that Citroen for me. As for the Ford boy, Latvala and Hirvonen are still very young and although they started brightly, both saw their title chances slip away. Hirvonen had always been under Gronholm's shadow at Ford and I think he couldn't really sucessfully step up to No1 this season. That isn't to say with a bit more luck he won't be a force next season.

Another factor is Solberg. 2003 showed so much promise, but since then Subaru has went backwards and so has his confidence, I don't think we'll ever know how good he really was.

Leob deserves the credit but again if he was in an era of Makkinen, Sainz, Mcrae and Burns in their prime would he really be a 5 time champion?

[Flynn]

It's an interesting point you make there. But how would you differentiate not having clear cut opposition to simply being miles better than everyone else? You yourself say that even Marcus Gronholm wasn't able to defeat him.

Even though you say that Petter showed promise in 2003, he won the title because Sebastian had been ordered to ease off the throttle, coupled with Citroen's mistake of not giving Sebastian enough fuel in Turkey.

I find it impossible to compare different eras so I can't answer even begin to fathom how Sebastian would compare to the drivers of the 90s in their prime. I know it is semi rhetorical but I can't help but mention it

[EwanM]

It's an interesting point you make there. But how would you differentiate not having clear cut opposition to simply being miles better than everyone else? You yourself say that even Marcus Gronholm wasn't able to defeat him.

Even though you say that Petter showed promise in 2003, he won the title because Sebastian had been ordered to ease off the throttle, coupled with Citroen's mistake of not giving Sebastian enough fuel in Turkey.

I find it impossible to compare different eras so I can't answer even begin to fathom how Sebastian would compare to the drivers of the 90s in their prime. I know it is semi rhetorical but I can't help but mention it

In my opinion, Gronholm isn't the driver that Leob is. Its a weird situation for me to judge. Yes Leob derserve all of his titles but I just look at the current Rally field and there isn't anyone in a position to challenge Leob.

Citroen - even when they took a "sabatical" were always very strong. And as I've mentioned at Ford, despite Ford having the upper hand at certain events, their driver line up will take time to evolve.

Other than that there has been no real challenge to Leob I Know its hard to judge in comparison with the past, but I can see Leob leaving the sport before anyone emerges as a potential rival

[Rivelution]

Man I would so watch WRC, but stupid SPEED dropped it

[Flynn]

It's an interesting point you make there. But how would you differentiate not having clear cut opposition to simply being miles better than everyone else? You yourself say that even Marcus Gronholm wasn't able to defeat him.

Even though you say that Petter showed promise in 2003, he won the title because Sebastian had been ordered to ease off the throttle, coupled with Citroen's mistake of not giving Sebastian enough fuel in Turkey.

I find it impossible to compare different eras so I can't answer even begin to fathom how Sebastian would compare to the drivers of the 90s in their prime. I know it is semi rhetorical but I can't help but mention it

In my opinion, Gronholm isn't the driver that Leob is. Its a weird situation for me to judge. Yes Leob derserve all of his titles but I just look at the current Rally field and there isn't anyone in a position to challenge Leob.

Citroen - even when they took a "sabatical" were always very strong. And as I've mentioned at Ford, despite Ford having the upper hand at certain events, their driver line up will take time to evolve.

Other than that there has been no real challenge to Leob I Know its hard to judge in comparison with the past, but I can see Leob leaving the sport before anyone emerges as a potential rival

Maybe Sebastian is just leagues ahead in terms of talent?

[EwanM]

It's an interesting point you make there. But how would you differentiate not having clear cut opposition to simply being miles better than everyone else? You yourself say that even Marcus Gronholm wasn't able to defeat him.

Even though you say that Petter showed promise in 2003, he won the title because Sebastian had been ordered to ease off the throttle, coupled with Citroen's mistake of not giving Sebastian enough fuel in Turkey.

I find it impossible to compare different eras so I can't answer even begin to fathom how Sebastian would compare to the drivers of the 90s in their prime. I know it is semi rhetorical but I can't help but mention it

In my opinion, Gronholm isn't the driver that Leob is. Its a weird situation for me to judge. Yes Leob derserve all of his titles but I just look at the current Rally field and there isn't anyone in a position to challenge Leob.

Citroen - even when they took a "sabatical" were always very strong. And as I've mentioned at Ford, despite Ford having the upper hand at certain events, their driver line up will take time to evolve.

Other than that there has been no real challenge to Leob I Know its hard to judge in comparison with the past, but I can see Leob leaving the sport before anyone emerges as a potential rival

Maybe Sebastian is just leagues ahead in terms of talent?

Think its a bit of a Schumacher situation. minus the dirty tricks tbh.

[welshie]

Richard Burns should and would have been his opposition.

[kerc]

Richard Burns should and would have been his opposition.

Aw, man. RIP.

[kerc]

Man I would so watch WRC, but stupid SPEED dropped it

Ditto. I hope they don't drop F1. Not dissing the sport, but I'm sick of NASCAR.

[texasmr2]

Man I would so watch WRC, but stupid SPEED dropped it

Ditto. I hope they don't drop F1. Not dissing the sport, but I'm sick of NASCAR.

Preach it brother ! I miss the old day's of ESPN when on virtually any Sunday I could watch the F1 race then the Group B Rally series then an IMSA race. Nascar did not suck as bad then as it does now because they had door banging fist flying races.

Anywho back to the topic SB is an amazing driver so congrats to his success. .

[AKR]

I so wish Loeb would ditch Citroen and drive for Ford............................................. Then I would be happy to win even more titles........

[Gaz]

I so wish Loeb would ditch Citroen and drive for Ford............................................. Then I would be happy to win even more titles........

yeh can't wait to see the WRC Focus RS

[AKR]

I so wish Loeb would ditch Citroen and drive for Ford............................................. Then I would be happy to win even more titles........

yeh can't wait to see the WRC Focus RS

From what I have read that is a great car. But no 4WD like the WRC version. Means will have a lot of torque oversteer like my Saab 93 Viggen. That is the major problem with high powered front wheel drive cars. Back in 1999 I thought, what the hell were Saab thinking, now I think the same thing about Ford.....

[Gaz]

I so wish Loeb would ditch Citroen and drive for Ford............................................. Then I would be happy to win even more titles........

yeh can't wait to see the WRC Focus RS

From what I have read that is a great car. But no 4WD like the WRC version. Means will have a lot of torque oversteer like my Saab 93 Viggen. That is the major problem with high powered front wheel drive cars. Back in 1999 I thought, what the hell were Saab thinking, now I think the same thing about Ford.....

Yeh its FWD but they have re-worded the diff so it can take the power and torque

its got a Quaife Automatic Torque Biasing limited-slip differential so it can handel it.

i want!