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#83803
i doubt it, considering there is an engine freeze all they can develop is the lubrication side of things.

most of the teams spending would be on the chassis and aero and testing testing testing be it in the wind tunnel or on track.
#83804
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Formula-One#Revenue_and_Profits

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Figures are from 2006. And despite the "engine freeze" i expect there is still a huge amount of money spent in this area, else there wouldn't be this money problem. I don't think the FIA are totally incompetent, when it comes to money i think they understand, it's just racing they don't.
Last edited by Matkins on 05 Dec 08, 15:30, edited 2 times in total.
#83807
thats based on the 06 season mate



Figures are from 2006. And despite the "engine freeze" i expect there is still a huge amount of money spent in this area, else there wouldn't be this money problem. I don't think the FIA are totally incompetent, when it comes to money i think they understand, it's just racing they don't.
#83808
06 was the introductory year of the 2.4 V8 that would explain the costs involved in that chart.

with a freeze there is not that kind of money to be spent on R&D teams only spend on production, and i can guarantee that would not be 50% of the budget!

think about it through out the year how many new components were produced for the chassis and aero, how many wind tunnel tests, sim tests, Employees working around the clock. this was not the case in the engine department. teams cut back on the engine employees, some commented they had wasted engineers who could not contribute any longer with an engine Freeze.
clearly this hype about standardised engines is not going to save any money at all to the big teams its more of a bait for privateer teams looking to join the sport.
#83809
06 was the introductory year of the 2.4 V8 that would explain the costs involved in that chart.

with a freeze there is not that kind of money to be spent on R&D teams only spend on production, and i can guarantee that would not be 50% of the budget!

think about it through out the year how many new components were produced for the chassis and aero, how many wind tunnel tests, sim tests, Employees working around the clock. this was not the case in the engine department. teams cut back on the engine employees, some commented they had wasted engineers who could not contribute any longer with an engine Freeze.
clearly this hype about standardised engines is not going to save any money at all to the big teams its more of a bait for privateer teams looking to join the sport.


Thats an interesting perspective on the FIA's intensions. As for the 08 budget split i would like to see some evidence before i'm convinced. As it seemed to me that we saw an improvement in the Renault engine during the course of the year, and Ferrari also seemed to get a horse power advantage mid season. There are always loopholes in regulations and what makes a winning team in F1 is usually the ability to find and exploit them as quickly and effectively as possible. Of course engine split will be lower than in 06, but it will still be relatively high because engines are damn expensive in any case. I remain to be convinced that cutting costs on engines is negligible as you imply.
#83816
I remember reading some estimated figures that McLaren and Ferrari spending £20 to £30 million on engine development with engine "freeze" in effect. There are so many loopholes that allow the engineers to squeeze out some extra performance. McLaren, Ferrari and BMW twigged on to them to pretty quickly, but Renault and Honda in particular didn't notice them, which was a surprise, for those teams were run by people who are past masters at exploiting loopholes in the regulations to their maximum.
#83817
I remember reading some estimated figures that McLaren and Ferrari spending £20 to £30 million on engine development with engine "freeze" in effect. There are so many loopholes that allow the engineers to squeeze out some extra performance. McLaren, Ferrari and BMW twigged on to them to pretty quickly, but Renault and Honda in particular didn't notice them, which was a surprise, for those teams were run by people who are past masters at exploiting loopholes in the regulations to their maximum.

:rolleyes:
#83820
I remember reading some estimated figures that McLaren and Ferrari spending £20 to £30 million on engine development with engine "freeze" in effect. There are so many loopholes that allow the engineers to squeeze out some extra performance. McLaren, Ferrari and BMW twigged on to them to pretty quickly, but Renault and Honda in particular didn't notice them, which was a surprise, for those teams were run by people who are past masters at exploiting loopholes in the regulations to their maximum.

:rolleyes:

What is your problem? I'm not taking at dig at anybody. All I'm saying is that Briatore et al. are usually pretty savvy when it comes to exploiting loopholes in the rules - which is perfectly fine. :rolleyes:
#83847
I dont think anyone likes having a standard engine rule, but at the same time, I dont think people like seeing big teams, such as Honda, leave F1 because of what is happening with the world's economy. It is a fact that people dont like change, but at this time, a standard engine to reduce costs tremendously is the right move. I hope that this rule doesnt last too long though, and that it does not restrict the constructor competitiveness in F1. Furthermore, I hope that after the economic crisis, and/or after teams are again able to afford the expenses that they had in recent years, the standard engine rule will be removed. We'll see what happens.


what would the point in a team like Honda competing if the engines were standerdized.

and even if they did take the cosworth engine it wouldn't reduce costs that much so they could still afford to compte.

its a stupid idea and mosley needs to stop getting involved.


How much does a team spend on developing an engine throughout a season?


not much considering their frozen at the moment.


I guess that is true. But, would standard engines introduce a significant cost cut compared to the way engines are now? By the way, I am definitely not for the idea, but at the same time, I wouldnt like to see more teams drop out. So I guess, what ever helps cutting cost at this time, is the right way to go.


You will see more teams leave if there is a standered engine
#83857
The problem is that Mad Max is only coming up with ways of cutting costs (In an effort to keep comparatively financially troubled teams afloat) at the expense of the prestige of the sport. The more F1 gets to be like the junior Formula, or (God help us) A1GP, the less likely the manufacturers and to some extent the Corporate entries are to continue.
#83860
I remember reading some estimated figures that McLaren and Ferrari spending £20 to £30 million on engine development with engine "freeze" in effect. There are so many loopholes that allow the engineers to squeeze out some extra performance. McLaren, Ferrari and BMW twigged on to them to pretty quickly, but Renault and Honda in particular didn't notice them, which was a surprise, for those teams were run by people who are past masters at exploiting loopholes in the regulations to their maximum.


It was silly to allow modifications for reliability. That was always going to be misused by teams looking for performance gains. They should have had a six month period when teams can make modifications for reliability, then a 100% freeze. The modifications for reliability would only be allowed if thoroughly investigated by a third party (Cosworth?) to check that they did not increase performance. Then a full freeze, for years at least.
#83864
The problem is that Mad Max is only coming up with ways of cutting costs (In an effort to keep comparatively financially troubled teams afloat) at the expense of the prestige of the sport. The more F1 gets to be like the junior Formula, or (God help us) A1GP, the less likely the manufacturers and to some extent the Corporate entries are to continue.


For me, GP2 is often a lot more exciting than F1. The badges and big dollar names in F1 are cool, but they're not necessary in my opinion. Lots of people will cry if Ferrari leave F1. And they threatened to didn't they? Do you think they'll stand by their word?
#83868
The problem is that Mad Max is only coming up with ways of cutting costs (In an effort to keep comparatively financially troubled teams afloat) at the expense of the prestige of the sport. The more F1 gets to be like the junior Formula, or (God help us) A1GP, the less likely the manufacturers and to some extent the Corporate entries are to continue.


For me, GP2 is often a lot more exciting than F1. The badges and big dollar names in F1 are cool, but they're not necessary in my opinion. Lots of people will cry if Ferrari leave F1. And they threatened to didn't they? Do you think they'll stand by their word?

Who knows? They can certainly get away with it. Ferrari is a bigger name than F1
#83894
Ferrari may think it's bigger than F1 but it's not.

Correction, some of it's fans thin k it's bigger than F1 but it's not.

As for Cosworth supplying cheap engines if 4 teams want it, actually, good idea Max.

Shame you only came up with that to try & bugger McLaren's deal with Force India but hey, the ends justify the means don't they?

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