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[8-ball]

Ok Im going to defend JB....

Ok Ok Rubiniho has had a better season this year but, Jenson has wiped the floor off of him the previous Seasons, are you guys all in the same boat as james Allan? forgetting Jensons famous victory for the team? You all say Hiedfelt and Kimi had bad seasons but are expected to bounce back in 2009, so why not Jenson? I think for the long term, Button has the better potential to take the team further in the future. My best bet for Rubens is to book up a test with STR.

Actually, no he hasn't.

The only season Jenson has out-performed Rubens is 2006, where Rubens had to adjust to Michelin tyres (having spent the past few years on Bridgestones) and to a new team environment. However, he wasn't particularly far behind Jenson, given the circumstances. Then in 2007, Jenson outscored Rubens, which is pretty much all people see. They fail to see that Rubens did better than Jenson on eleven occasions, whilst Jenson did better on only five. And this year speaks for itself.

And there's more to it than just results. For the past two years, Jenson has taken every opportunity to rubbish the Honda car and moan about how the team need to do more, whilst not applying himself and committing fully to racing, instead competing in athletic events. Meanwhile, Rubens is as motivated as ever and has just got on with the job, and delivered some astounding results given the fact that the only car worse than the Honda this year has been the Force India.

Agree 100%.

Jenson can take a sabbatical in 09 and go to Williams for 2010 (Oh the irony...) and let Honda develop under the leadership of Ross Brawn. Williams should be desperate enough around 2010 to take Jenson

[Denthúl]

Ok Im going to defend JB....

Ok Ok Rubiniho has had a better season this year but, Jenson has wiped the floor off of him the previous Seasons, are you guys all in the same boat as james Allan? forgetting Jensons famous victory for the team? You all say Hiedfelt and Kimi had bad seasons but are expected to bounce back in 2009, so why not Jenson? I think for the long term, Button has the better potential to take the team further in the future. My best bet for Rubens is to book up a test with STR.

Actually, no he hasn't.

The only season Jenson has out-performed Rubens is 2006, where Rubens had to adjust to Michelin tyres (having spent the past few years on Bridgestones) and to a new team environment. However, he wasn't particularly far behind Jenson, given the circumstances. Then in 2007, Jenson outscored Rubens, which is pretty much all people see. They fail to see that Rubens did better than Jenson on eleven occasions, whilst Jenson did better on only five. And this year speaks for itself.

And there's more to it than just results. For the past two years, Jenson has taken every opportunity to rubbish the Honda car and moan about how the team need to do more, whilst not applying himself and committing fully to racing, instead competing in athletic events. Meanwhile, Rubens is as motivated as ever and has just got on with the job, and delivered some astounding results given the fact that the only car worse than the Honda this year has been the Force India.

Agree 100%.

Jenson can take a sabbatical in 09 and go to Williams for 2010 (Oh the irony...) and let Honda develop under the leadership of Ross Brawn. Williams should be desperate enough around 2010 to take Jenson

I think Nico and Kazuki would both be a better investment than Jenson, to be honest. I rate Nico much more highly than Jenson and Kazuki is important if the team want to stick with Toyota engines (which might be good if they can put it on par with some of the front-runners during the un-freeze). Otherwise, they should perhaps try to coax Renault into a deal whereby Williams take a French driver and are powered by Renault engines...

[8-ball]

Ok Im going to defend JB....

Ok Ok Rubiniho has had a better season this year but, Jenson has wiped the floor off of him the previous Seasons, are you guys all in the same boat as james Allan? forgetting Jensons famous victory for the team? You all say Hiedfelt and Kimi had bad seasons but are expected to bounce back in 2009, so why not Jenson? I think for the long term, Button has the better potential to take the team further in the future. My best bet for Rubens is to book up a test with STR.

Actually, no he hasn't.

The only season Jenson has out-performed Rubens is 2006, where Rubens had to adjust to Michelin tyres (having spent the past few years on Bridgestones) and to a new team environment. However, he wasn't particularly far behind Jenson, given the circumstances. Then in 2007, Jenson outscored Rubens, which is pretty much all people see. They fail to see that Rubens did better than Jenson on eleven occasions, whilst Jenson did better on only five. And this year speaks for itself.

And there's more to it than just results. For the past two years, Jenson has taken every opportunity to rubbish the Honda car and moan about how the team need to do more, whilst not applying himself and committing fully to racing, instead competing in athletic events. Meanwhile, Rubens is as motivated as ever and has just got on with the job, and delivered some astounding results given the fact that the only car worse than the Honda this year has been the Force India.

Agree 100%.

Jenson can take a sabbatical in 09 and go to Williams for 2010 (Oh the irony...) and let Honda develop under the leadership of Ross Brawn. Williams should be desperate enough around 2010 to take Jenson

I think Nico and Kazuki would both be a better investment than Jenson, to be honest. I rate Nico much more highly than Jenson and Kazuki is important if the team want to stick with Toyota engines (which might be good if they can put it on par with some of the front-runners during the un-freeze). Otherwise, they should perhaps try to coax Renault into a deal whereby Williams take a French driver and are powered by Renault engines...

I say 2010 because Nico should be on his way to McLaren by then (providing Heikki spectacularly fail at Mclaren. As I expect him to) and therefore a Williams with the prinicpal driver Kazuki Nakajima is unacceptable. So Frank would then turn to the experienced Englishman depending on how much groveling Jenson does.

[Denthúl]

Ok Im going to defend JB....

Ok Ok Rubiniho has had a better season this year but, Jenson has wiped the floor off of him the previous Seasons, are you guys all in the same boat as james Allan? forgetting Jensons famous victory for the team? You all say Hiedfelt and Kimi had bad seasons but are expected to bounce back in 2009, so why not Jenson? I think for the long term, Button has the better potential to take the team further in the future. My best bet for Rubens is to book up a test with STR.

Actually, no he hasn't.

The only season Jenson has out-performed Rubens is 2006, where Rubens had to adjust to Michelin tyres (having spent the past few years on Bridgestones) and to a new team environment. However, he wasn't particularly far behind Jenson, given the circumstances. Then in 2007, Jenson outscored Rubens, which is pretty much all people see. They fail to see that Rubens did better than Jenson on eleven occasions, whilst Jenson did better on only five. And this year speaks for itself.

And there's more to it than just results. For the past two years, Jenson has taken every opportunity to rubbish the Honda car and moan about how the team need to do more, whilst not applying himself and committing fully to racing, instead competing in athletic events. Meanwhile, Rubens is as motivated as ever and has just got on with the job, and delivered some astounding results given the fact that the only car worse than the Honda this year has been the Force India.

Agree 100%.

Jenson can take a sabbatical in 09 and go to Williams for 2010 (Oh the irony...) and let Honda develop under the leadership of Ross Brawn. Williams should be desperate enough around 2010 to take Jenson

I think Nico and Kazuki would both be a better investment than Jenson, to be honest. I rate Nico much more highly than Jenson and Kazuki is important if the team want to stick with Toyota engines (which might be good if they can put it on par with some of the front-runners during the un-freeze). Otherwise, they should perhaps try to coax Renault into a deal whereby Williams take a French driver and are powered by Renault engines...

I say 2010 because Nico should be on his way to McLaren by then (providing Heikki spectacularly fail at Mclaren. As I expect him to) and therefore a Williams with the prinicpal driver Kazuki Nakajima is unacceptable. So Frank would then turn to the experienced Englishman depending on how much groveling Jenson does.

By 2010 Jenson will probably be really undesirable. Senna, Di Grassi, Hulkenberg and Grosjean will have more experience; guys like Paffet and Di Resta will probably be available and, if Williams are looking competitive, then Nico could quite easily still be there. If they can keep up the good work on mechanical grip like they have this year and translate that into an upper-midfield/podium-finishing position next year, then Nico will likely stay on into 2010.

[8-ball]

I want Williams to be successful and I really hope they pull their act together. But I am a realist and I don't think they will be going forward but rather staying still and languishing in the midfield. Nico is not going to stay there forever and if he does go in 2010 Williams is going to need an experienced hand. Gary Paffet would be the ideal candidate but he has been so unlucky in getting race drives and I am thinking maybe it will be too late...

[McLaren Fan]

Regardless of whether you are sceptical about Williams ever returning to form (and I have my reservations), 2009 is their last chance to get things right. Williams have been talking themselves up for years - they're always going to do better next season. We have heard it all before. There has to be some serious progress next season.

[Denthúl]

Regardless of whether you are sceptical about Williams ever returning to form (and I have my reservations), 2009 is their last chance to get things right. Williams have been talking themselves up for years - they're always going to do better next season. We have heard it all before. There has to be some serious progress next season.

Just imagine what could've been if BMW had invested further in Williams and bought a big share, like Mercedes did with McLaren...

[McLaren Fan]

Regardless of whether you are sceptical about Williams ever returning to form (and I have my reservations), 2009 is their last chance to get things right. Williams have been talking themselves up for years - they're always going to do better next season. We have heard it all before. There has to be some serious progress next season.

Just imagine what could've been if BMW had invested further in Williams and bought a big share, like Mercedes did with McLaren...

Well, you've basically hit the nail on the head. Sir Frank Williams - legendary as he is - is either delusional in thinking that his business model still works or is too arrogant to admit that it's outmoded. There were several reasons why Ron Dennis brought Mercedes into the McLaren Group (then McLaren-TAG Holdings), one of which was that he saw the direction Formula One was taking in the mid-1990s - i.e. expenditure was beginning to creep up. It's all very well being in Williams' situation when you are successful: companies are queuing up to sponsor the team, the best drivers want to work for the team etc.; but as soon as you hit a bad patch for a couple of seasons, your loss of success looses the things which made you successful in the first instance. It came as no surprise to me that Williams' fortunes dipped after Renault bailed out at the end of 1997 and went into free fall when BMW left them a couple of years back. Williams' finances are on live support at the moment. If things don't go well next season, Sir Frank would be crazy not to look for an investor. Unfortunately for him, the "credit crunch" means buying a stake in an ailing Formula One team isn't high up on businesses' to-do list.

[texasmr2]

Regardless of whether you are sceptical about Williams ever returning to form (and I have my reservations), 2009 is their last chance to get things right. Williams have been talking themselves up for years - they're always going to do better next season. We have heard it all before. There has to be some serious progress next season.

Just imagine what could've been if BMW had invested further in Williams and bought a big share, like Mercedes did with McLaren...

Well, you've basically hit the nail on the head. Sir Frank Williams - legendary as he is - is either delusional in thinking that his business model still works or is too arrogant to admit that it's outmoded. There were several reasons why Ron Dennis brought Mercedes into the McLaren Group (then McLaren-TAG Holdings), one of which was that he saw the direction Formula One was taking in the mid-1990s - i.e. expenditure was beginning to creep up. It's all very well being in Williams' situation when you are successful: companies are queuing up to sponsor the team, the best drivers want to work for the team etc.; but as soon as you hit a bad patch for a couple of seasons, your loss of success looses the things which made you successful in the first instance. It came as no surprise to me that Williams' fortunes dipped after Renault bailed out at the end of 1997 and went into free fall when BMW left them a couple of years back. Williams' finances are on live support at the moment. If things don't go well next season, Sir Frank would be crazy not to look for an investor. Unfortunately for him, the "credit crunch" means buying a stake in an ailing Formula One team isn't high up on businesses' to-do list.

Damn Chris sometime's your insight and logic actually make some sort of sense ! J/K
I really like what you said and agree with it.

[2eyebrows]

[
Well, you've basically hit the nail on the head. Sir Frank Williams - legendary as he is - is either delusional in thinking that his business model still works or is too arrogant to admit that it's outmoded. There were several reasons why Ron Dennis brought Mercedes into the McLaren Group (then McLaren-TAG Holdings), one of which was that he saw the direction Formula One was taking in the mid-1990s - i.e. expenditure was beginning to creep up. It's all very well being in Williams' situation when you are successful: companies are queuing up to sponsor the team, the best drivers want to work for the team etc.; but as soon as you hit a bad patch for a couple of seasons, your loss of success looses the things which made you successful in the first instance. It came as no surprise to me that Williams' fortunes dipped after Renault bailed out at the end of 1997 and went into free fall when BMW left them a couple of years back. Williams' finances are on live support at the moment. If things don't go well next season, Sir Frank would be crazy not to look for an investor. Unfortunately for him, the "credit crunch" means buying a stake in an ailing Formula One team isn't high up on businesses' to-do list.

I agree as well. But i can understand Frank's resistance. Williams F1 team's heart is still that of a racer, he doesn't want to corporatise it to the extent the other teams are doing. Its nostalgia, unpractical in the current climate sure, but the right way to be They are one of my favourite teams on the grid and am glad BMW's left 'em. But yes i guess its time for him to let go, and it may be too late now as you say.

[KyrosV]

Williams will never go anywhere in F1 as long as they have a toyota customer engine in the back of their car. There better of with a supply deal from a manufacturer who curently dosent have an F1 works team. They were fools for ditching Cosworth, just because of a few unreliability issues. I can only see williams struggaling for the next few seasons... sorry

[texasmr2]

One thing is certain and that is Williams is no stranger to struggles and that is why we should never count them out or loose respect for them.

[KyrosV]

One thing is certain and that is Williams is no stranger to struggles and that is why we should never count them out or loose respect for them.

Oh no, Williams have achieved so much. They are a great asset to F1

[texasmr2]

One thing is certain and that is Williams is no stranger to struggles and that is why we should never count them out or loose respect for them.

Oh no, Williams have achieved so much. They are a great asset to F1

Hmm I dont know if I should tell you to STFU YSDA or if you are being sarcastic? I hope it is the latter of the two .

[KyrosV]

One thing is certain and that is Williams is no stranger to struggles and that is why we should never count them out or loose respect for them.

Oh no, Williams have achieved so much. They are a great asset to F1

Hmm I dont know if I should tell you to STFU YSDA or if you are being sarcastic? I hope it is the latter of the two .

you got me =/