FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[darwin dali]

Fireproof condoms . . . . imagine the possibilities

I'd rather not!
Imagine square condoms for cubeHEAD

[Rivelution]

The teams desperate for KERS to come along are Honda and Williams. If they can get it to work properly (which is possible as they've got the innovative minds of Ross Brawn and Patrick Head respectively to count on) they could be a force to be reckoned with next year, especially at any fast races that require heavy breaking (Montreal?).

I bet Honda will be competitive next year.

[EwanM]

^^^ End of the day, at least it is better F1 tries to appear to tackle green issues, instead of keeping their heads in the sand. Certainly biofuel isn't the option. In these times of Manufacturer dominance, F1 has to take it's place at the forefront of developing technology for the road and the track.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/69501

Toyota trust KERS will be ready in time

By Pablo Elizalde Tuesday, July 29th 2008, 09:04 GMT


Toyota's engine chief Luca Marmorini is confident the Japanese squad will have their KERS system ready in time for next year.

Marmorini admits, however, that their main priority is to make the system completely safe before they race in on a circuit.

"The 2009 regulations make KERS optional, not compulsory, so it is logical that every team has considered that possibility," said Marmorini.

"However, KERS has the potential to bring an improvement in lap time so we are working at full speed to take advantage of this opportunity.

"Our development is focused on producing a KERS system which is appropriate for Formula One and brings performance increase. We have a group dedicated to this and we trust them to deliver."

Marmorini's comments come after Toyota team president John Howett said he had doubts KERS can be made ready in time for next season.

The early development of KERS has made the headlines for the troubles suffered by Red Bull, who had a scare with a battery in their factory, and by BMW Sauber, who had one of their mechanics electrocuted when he touched a car during testing.

Marmorini made it clear that Toyota's priority is to make the system safe.

"Hybrid systems in Toyota road cars are proven to be safe and reliable, that is beyond doubt, so the technology is not a problem," Marmorini added.

"We are in the development stage of KERS in Formula One and we will not use the system in the car until we are sure that the highest safety standards have been met. Safety is the priority for Toyota."

The Italian said 95 percent of the development is done in the dyno and he revealed the team are yet to decide when they will run KERS in their car.

"We have not set a date for this as it will depend on our development progress in the factory. We will run KERS in the car only when the system has met our stringent requirements for performance and safety."

[welshie]

The teams desperate for KERS to come along are Honda and Williams. If they can get it to work properly (which is possible as they've got the innovative minds of Ross Brawn and Patrick Head respectively to count on) they could be a force to be reckoned with next year, especially at any fast races that require heavy breaking (Montreal?).

I bet Honda will be competitive next year.

I bloody hope so, the last few seasons have killed me!!

[welshie]

Here is the video of the BMW KERS incident, I especially like the comments below the vid . . . fools

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzaQ-t1ojPU

[McLaren Fan]

From autosport.com:

By Jonathan Noble Friday, August 8th 2008, 10:04 GMT

Formula One drivers' concerns about the safety of Kinetic Energy Recovery Systems (KERS) have increased because BMW Sauber have not yet found out what caused their electric shock incident in Jerez.

That is the view of Grand Prix Drivers' Association (GPDA) director Mark Webber, who says that the KERS safety debate will become much bigger if BMW Sauber cannot get to the bottom of what it was that caused one of their mechanics to suffer an electric shock during testing.

The matter was discussed by drivers at the Hungarian Grand Prix, as they await the results of BMW Sauber's investigations into the matter.

When asked by autosport.com about the feelings among drivers, Webber said: "There is a report coming from BMW about what happened there, but the rumour is they haven't a clue why it happened. They have no idea - and that is a worry.

"You only need to think about what would happen if someone gets shocked into the fast lane of the pitlane."

Webber likened the fears among drivers about KERS to those experienced by the general public after a aviation accident, when there is no confirmation of what caused the disaster.

"It is like a plane crash when you don't get the evidence," he said.

Although the drivers do have their concerns about the situation, all the teams involved in the sport are confident they will eventually get KERS completely safe.

Force India's chief technical officer Mike Gascoyne said: "It's flavour of the month but the simple fact is teams will get on top of it. If you look at the electronic systems, they are fairly standard technology which is why people are going for them rather than some of the more involved mechanical type systems that do pose a lot of problems.

"The fact is, we will get on top of them quickly. As soon as one person does, the nature of Formula One means everyone else has to. Things like the incident with BMW, I'm sure they are working to understand it, but I don't think that'll cause problems. It should be straightforward.

"Certainly the electronic KERS we're looking at is a fully sealed unit. All the high-tension cables are within a sealed unit. It's difficult to see how you can have a problem."

On top of the safety issues, some teams are also worried about the costs involved in developing KERS - with rumours that some manufacturers have set aside as much as £35 million in bringing on the technology over the next few years.

Williams CEO Adam Parr said, however, that there was little ground for teams to complain about costs.

"I don't mind saying that our budget for KERS is ten percent of our budget for aerodynamics and composite parts, so it's not a huge amount of money and we see it as a fantastic investment into the future of the sport," he told the official Formula One website.

"And looking at it from a competitive side, I don't see it as a potential performance differentiator. Overall we think it is the kind of thing we should be doing in Formula One, as it maybe has a wider significance than only in Formula One."

[texasmr2]

I have merged all the topic's and post concerning KERS because there is no reason having multiple topic's in different forum's concerning the same subject. This topic is now in the correct forum.

Gregg

[McLaren Fan]

From F1 Live:

F1 can solve KERS safety fears

Mike Gascoyne has played down fears the new KERS technology for 2009 will make Formula One less safe.

The voluntary deployment of the environmentally-friendly solution begins next year, but some teams have experienced problems in the current development phase.

But despite the reports of exploding batteries, fire alarms, dangerous fumes and the risk of electric shocks, Force India's technical boss insists the brains in F1's design rooms will get to grips with KERS.

"I think the safety issue is one that's being stressed but it's just an engineering problem and an engineering challenge," he said.

Gascoyne said making KERS ultimately safe is a 'similar' challenge to the one involving hauling 70kg of fuel around corners at 200mph.

"We have to go through it and be rigorous but it's just like numerous other challenges on the car," the Briton explained.

Toyota's Pascal Vasselon, meanwhile, suggested that teams are deliberately pushing the envelope at present in order to explore the limits of the new technology.

"We will all be trying to overheat or overcharge batteries," he said. "Those who will use flywheels will all be trying to crash flywheels."

At a meeting in Hungary, bosses of the ten teams failed to reach an agreement to delay racing KERS until 2010.

Even so, some teams have not decided whether or not to run their systems at the start of next year.

"The schedule will be very tight," Vasselon confirms. "It is still possible, but clearly very tight to get something from the system at the start of the season."

And the question of whether teams use KERS-equipped cars as early as Melbourne next year is not simply about making the system safe, BMW Sauber's Willy Rampf points out.

"First we have to see in the car what is the actual performance gain, because there is this extra power from KERS but also more weight or less ballast, so it will always be a trade-off," he said.

Source: GMM
© CAPSIS International

[CX09]

But what's the point if it doesn't help you win a championship? If the car with KERS is slower than without it then I don't see the point.

I see your point, but F1 is about vehicle performance and efficiency. Who is to say the KERS system slows down the cars? I haven't yet seen the system implemented into a modern F1. If the FIA made KERS mandatory then it wouldn't matter if KERS did or didn't slow down the cars, they would all be equal. The only difference is they would all be developing greater technology that the world is in desperate need of.

go watch a movie called "who killed the electric car" the car manufacturers are quite happy with the current petrol internal combustion engines.

The oil companies can only price gouge for so long before various economies start to seriously tank, not to mention public awareness and opinion about cleaner energy begins to sway the products that are being offered. And besides Honda has been a leader in cleaner cars for decades and continue to push for more.

I agree that we need this stuff and need it now, HOWEVER, I watch F1 to see the fastest and freakiest cars in the world. And if that means turbo charged V10's with slick tires and movable wings then bring it on. Racing should come first.

[McLaren Fan]

From F1 Live:

BMW Sauber explain KERS testing incident

BMW Sauber on Thursday insisted there was no danger to either the mechanic or test driver Christian Klien during the electric shock incident at the Jerez test a month ago.

The unnamed mechanic was thrown to the ground briefly hospitalised but not seriously injured, as he tried to wheel Klien's prototype test car, equipped with an early KERS system, at the Spanish circuit.

But while conceding that high voltage was involved, the team's head of powertrain Markus Duesmann denies that the mechanic or Klien were exposed to serious danger.

At the end of a long investigation into the incident, BMW also said Klien was protected by the shock by his racing overalls and gloves.

Markus Duesmann Q&A

What exactly happened in Jerez?
"The mechanic suffered an electric shock after touching the sidepod and steering wheel of the car. There was a high frequency AC voltage between these contact points, the cause of which has been traced back to the KERS control unit and a sporadic capacitive coupling* from the high-voltage network to the 12-volt network. The voltage ran through the wiring of the 12-volt network to the steering wheel and through the carbon chassis back to the control unit."

Was there a serious danger to the mechanic and the driver?
"No, as only a small amount of energy can be transferred through this capacitive coupling effect.
However, the energy is sufficient to cause an extremely painful reaction. The driver was insulated against the car by his racing overalls and gloves and therefore not in any danger."

Why did the investigation take so long?
"It was not possible initially to reproduce the capacitive coupling effect in the car, as the problem was caused by a sporadic error in the control unit. Due to the extremely high frequency of the voltage in the steering wheel, the safety mechanisms and data recordings did not pick up on the error. In the absence of data, all the theoretical possibilities had to be systematically investigated and analysed in tests. Furthermore, the capacitive coupling effect only occurs under certain conditions. Without the option of driving the KERS test car used in Jerez again, we had to reconstruct these conditions. We also had to develop a model to be installed between the steering wheel and sidepod which replicated the characteristics of the human body as an electric transfer element."

What measures are now being taken to solve the problem?
"In addition to the measures required to tackle the issue at hand, the extremely far-reaching analysis we conducted also gave rise to other recommendations which are of great value for the development of electric KERS systems. Among the measures arrived at are changes in the design of the control unit to avoid capacitive coupling effects, extended monitoring functions for high frequencies and a conductive connection of the chassis components to avoid any electric potential."

What will happen with these findings now?
"We have already handed over this safety analysis, complete with measures and recommendations, to the FIA, and will also make our findings available to the other teams at the next meeting of the Technical Working Group."

When will the next track test for KERS take place?
"We will resume the testing programme once all the necessary amendments to the safety concept have been implemented. We expect this to be the case in the autumn."

*Note on capacitive coupling: this refers to an inadvertent transfer of electric voltage between two transfer media by inductive or capacitive coupling.

E.A, Source: GMM
© CAPSIS International

[Flynn]

The image I have in my mind about K.E.R.S. is of those cartoons were a character has a button with "turbo" written on it and presses it and he goes wooshing off into the distance. Ofcourse, we all know turbos were never like that in the first place It's interesting how the concept has resurfaced as K.E.R.S. though.

[8-ball]

The image I have in my mind about K.E.R.S. is of those cartoons were a character has a button with "turbo" written on it and presses it and he goes wooshing off into the distance. Ofcourse, we all know turbos were never like that in the first place It's interesting how the concept has resurfaced as K.E.R.S. though.

I think that it could work but it is open to abuse. Imagine a crafty Mclaren engineer manages to develop a device (exploiting a loophole) that pumps more power to the battery. The extra 80hp could turn into 100hp and the FIA would be onto them so fast Ron Dennis would know what hit him.