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[jsonf1]

There are no records McLaren has more than Ferrari. None whatsoever.

Can I also point out, Ferrari never took part in CanAm, let alone won, have never won the Indy 500, and didn't win the Le Mans 24 hours on their debut. So there are some records that Mclaren have that Ferrari simply can't touch. Now if you're talking just about F1... Then I look forward to the day Ferrari is fined more than $100,000,000!!!

Ferrari will never get fined $100,000,000. If that happened Ferrari will say bye, bye and then that will also mean bye, bye F1. About CanA< and Indy 500 and LeMan 24 hours, so what if Ferrari didn't take part. This is about F1 so why even mention them. Ferrari have won IMSA before as well and McLaren have not. But do you see me mentioning IMSA? Ferrari are the greatest in F1. In other motorsport they are not, I know that and I don't even pretend they are. But I can still be proud to say that Lancia are the greatest in WRC (even after not being there since 1993) and Ford, Porsche and Alfa Romeo are great in many other motorsports so I'll be happy with that. Even going back to Ford and Porsche, some of McLaren's race and championship titles were powered by Ford and Porsche................................... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

err we won 4 times in a row powered by Honda.

even so since 1969 Ferrari have been powered by FIAT

Ferrari have had more Years in F1 than Mclaren so they bound to have a better record

"I feel that life is measured in achievement, not in years alone." - Bruce Mclaren

Mclaren have archived more than Ferrari in the 10 years less they have had.

What are you talking about. This decade alone Ferrari have achieved more than what McLaren ever had and will. Between 2000 and 2004 Ferrari were untouchable. Ferrari did better than McLaren in 2006 and only were bettered by Renault whom are ok and once again Ferrari won everything rightfully in 2007. In 2008 Ferrari again wins the constructors. All McLaren amanged to do in 10 or so years is win a drivers title this year and one that will probably not be repeated in a long time. McLaren compare to Ferrari? Ha, what an absoulute joke! Fact is nothing is as great and nothing can compare to Ferrari. Ferrari is like a god in motorracing. Everyone with half a brain knows to desire them and how great they are. McLaren well they might have made a few good race cars over the years, but your average Nissan or Toyota has more to them than McLaren. Gee at least a car like the Nissan GT-R is a full Nissan. And a good one too. What the hell is a McLaren. At the moment it has a Mercedes Engine. Their once off road car had a BMW engine. In the past their race cars have been powered by Peageot, Ford, Honda, Porsche and even Alfa Romeo. Who the hell are McLaren compared to Ferrari. Total trash if you ask me.

Now that´s what I call FACTS
It´s hard to admit that your favourite team is worse then some other team but every real man or woman accepts facts and understands that you can´t always win.

[AKR]

Now that´s what I call FACTS
It´s hard to admit that your favourite team is worse then some other team but every real man or woman accepts facts and understands that you can´t always win.

Not sure who you are siding with but a lot of my stuff is just coming out as I am getting frustrated. I have like 5 or so McLarenites gang up on me and I have to fight them alone. Why cant one of the other Ferrari Tofosi back me up for once. After all the initial facts I stated were correct. The McLarenites want to twist them around and make their team look better than mine. Be it, but sooner ot later if I am the only Ferrari supporter having to spill out all the facts in Ferrari's defence against a dozen McLarenites, then eventually I am going to tire and by then you might as well call this forum the McLarenula1.net forum......... Get my drift anyone?

[8-ball]

Now that´s what I call FACTS
It´s hard to admit that your favourite team is worse then some other team but every real man or woman accepts facts and understands that you can´t always win.

Not sure who you are siding with but a lot of my stuff is just coming out as I am getting frustrated. I have like 5 or so McLarenites gang up on me and I have to fight them alone. Why cant one of the other Ferrari Tofosi back me up for once. After all the initial facts I stated were correct. The McLarenites want to twist them around and make their team look better than mine. Be it, but sooner ot later if I am the only Ferrari supporter having to spill out all the facts in Ferrari's defence against a dozen McLarenites, then eventually I am going to tire and by then you might as well call this forum the McLarenula1.net forum......... Get my drift anyone?

Hey I am a Ferrari fan (believe it or not) and in this thread AKR you are right. Ferrari are the most successful team and in this decade have built the best cars. Simple as that. Of course the Mclarenites will try to twist it but that goes for supporters of every team. So if you want back up then I'm here however useful I can be!

[McLaren Fan]

If there were one race less then Ferrari's percentage would go up.

But there wasn't, Kiki, so get over it. The fact of the matter was that MP4/4, save a couple of reliability gremlins which very common in Formula One before engines had to last two Grands Prix, was invincible. The 1988 season could have gone on for ten thousand Grand Prix and the MP4/4 would have won them all hands down.

Ferrari will never get fined $100,000,000.

True, the FIA have got your back.

Even going back to Ford and Porsche, some of McLaren's race and championship titles were powered by Ford and Porsche.

Well, that post is erroneous. TAG invested in McLaren and went to Porsche for custom engines to be build. As TAG are shareholders of McLaren, technically speaking McLaren were building their own engines. Anyway, even if your point did stack up, it wouldn't matter, for although McLaren have not always built their own engine, they have made plenty of parts for their cars that Ferrari get others to do for them. Ferrari, then, also must not be a proper car manufacturer or constructor.

Ferrari have had more Years in F1 than Mclaren so they bound to have a better record

In terms of Grand Prix entered, Ferrari are 1% ahead in terms of success to Grands Prix entered. However, when you factor in the help Ferrari have got from the FIA over the decades and the number of races and titles McLaren have shagged out of, I'd say we are at least level pegging or ahead.

Bruce McLaren's motto is very apt. The tifosi gloat at McLaren, but what they always fail to appreciate is that Bruce was killed when his racing company was in its infancy. Had Bruce not have been killed, McLaren would have had a better road-car setup for starters. The tifosi, instead, should count themselves lucky that Enzo Ferrari wasn't killed in his racing career, otherwise Scuderia Ferrari would never have existed. To be honest, I think the tifosi are sick, twisted, disrespectful arseholes.

Not sure who you are siding with but a lot of my stuff is just coming out as I am getting frustrated. I have like 5 or so McLarenites gang up on me and I have to fight them alone. Why cant one of the other Ferrari Tofosi back me up for once. After all the initial facts I stated were correct. The McLarenites want to twist them around and make their team look better than mine. Be it, but sooner ot later if I am the only Ferrari supporter having to spill out all the facts in Ferrari's defence against a dozen McLarenites, then eventually I am going to tire and by then you might as well call this forum the McLarenula1.net forum......... Get my drift anyone?

This forum is not a den of McLaren supporters. It is a neutral forum. The only reason you don't like it is because it debunks your delusion that everybody in Formula One wanks over Ferrari. They don't. Get over it. There are more McLaren supporters on this forum than people who like Ferrari. Furthermore, there is healthy support particularly for BMW and Renault, and teams like Red Bull and Williams have also got several supporters. Formula One does not revolve around Ferrari and Ferrari are the most overrated team in the history of sport.

[AKR]

Now that´s what I call FACTS
It´s hard to admit that your favourite team is worse then some other team but every real man or woman accepts facts and understands that you can´t always win.

Not sure who you are siding with but a lot of my stuff is just coming out as I am getting frustrated. I have like 5 or so McLarenites gang up on me and I have to fight them alone. Why cant one of the other Ferrari Tofosi back me up for once. After all the initial facts I stated were correct. The McLarenites want to twist them around and make their team look better than mine. Be it, but sooner ot later if I am the only Ferrari supporter having to spill out all the facts in Ferrari's defence against a dozen McLarenites, then eventually I am going to tire and by then you might as well call this forum the McLarenula1.net forum......... Get my drift anyone?

Hey I am a Ferrari fan (believe it or not) and in this thread AKR you are right. Ferrari are the most successful team and in this decade have built the best cars. Simple as that. Of course the Mclarenites will try to twist it but that goes for supporters of every team. So if you want back up then I'm here however useful I can be!

Hvala Ljepa. Many Thanks. I didn't know you were a Ferrari Fan. And you have been here probably longer than me. But that is good to know. And yes if you know anything I don't, by all means say it so it can help shutup those hipocrite McLaren supporters and their lies.

[AKR]

But there wasn't, Kiki, so get over it. The fact of the matter was that MP4/4, save a couple of reliability gremlins which very common in Formula One before engines had to last two Grands Prix, was invincible. The 1988 season could have gone on for ten thousand Grand Prix and the MP4/4 would have won them all hands down.

That isn't fact because there is no proof. And if you want to use your stupid percentage tactic Ferrari won 7 out of 8 races in 1952 but the reality is they didn't compete in the Indy 500 so out of what they raced they won 7 out of 7 making the percentage 100%. Whichever way you see it Ferrari holds the record handdown. And that is a fact.

Well, that post is erroneous. TAG invested in McLaren and went to Porsche for custom engines to be build. As TAG are shareholders of McLaren, technically speaking McLaren were building their own engines. Anyway, even if your point did stack up, it wouldn't matter, for although McLaren have not always built their own engine, they have made plenty of parts for their cars that Ferrari get others to do for them. Ferrari, then, also must not be a proper car manufacturer or constructor.

You are good at twisting things around. But you should know better by now that I have to much knowledge for that trick to work on me.

Bruce McLaren's motto is very apt. The tifosi gloat at McLaren, but what they always fail to appreciate is that Bruce was killed when his racing company was in its infancy. Had Bruce not have been killed, McLaren would have had a better road-car setup for starters. The tifosi, instead, should count themselves lucky that Enzo Ferrari wasn't killed in his racing career, otherwise Scuderia Ferrari would never have existed. To be honest, I think the tifosi are sick, twisted, disrespectful arseholes.

I guess I'll use your words here. That is but Bruce McLaren died (Which wasn't good of course) so what he could of achieved is just that, a could of. Not a fact so things are the way they are now and that is that. Get over it. And no us tifosi are not arseholes. It is more the otherway around. We just would like you McLarenites to accept reality. You guys want to twits facts and make yourselvs look better. I think we all know who the real bad guys are don't we Chris?

This forum is not a den of McLaren supporters. It is a neutral forum. The only reason you don't like it is because it debunks your delusion that everybody in Formula One wanks over Ferrari. They don't. Get over it. There are more McLaren supporters on this forum than people who like Ferrari. Furthermore, there is healthy support particularly for BMW and Renault, and teams like Red Bull and Williams have also got several supporters. Formula One does not revolve around Ferrari and Ferrari are the most overrated team in the history of sport.

This forum is like 1 percent of the worlds F1 followers. Most people out there go for Ferrari. Fact and furthermore, most people are rational enough to know what a real F1 team is. Need I say more.

[McLaren Fan]

That isn't fact because there is no proof. And if you want to use your stupid percentage tactic Ferrari won 7 out of 8 races in 1952 but the reality is they didn't compete in the Indy 500 so out of what they raced they won 7 out of 7 making the percentage 100%. Whichever way you see it Ferrari holds the record handdown. And that is a fact.

No, it is not a fact. McLaren and Ferrari are tied on fifteen wins in a season and the MP4/4 had a higher wining percentage. Those are the facts.

You are good at twisting things around.

The irony in that is blinding.

I guess I'll use your words here. That is but Bruce McLaren died (Which wasn't good of course) so what he could of achieved is just that, a could of. Not a fact so things are the way they are now and that is that. Get over it. And no us tifosi are not arseholes. It is more the otherway around. We just would like you McLarenites to accept reality. You guys want to twits facts and make yourselvs look better. I think we all know who the real bad guys are don't we Chris?

No, the tifosi are the scum, abusing fans of other teams at Grand Prix, and claiming Ferrari have a monopoly on success, passion and tradition in Formula One.

This forum is like 1 percent of the worlds F1 followers. Most people out there go for Ferrari. Fact and furthermore, most people are rational enough to know what a real F1 team is. Need I say more.

If you ever did science in school, you will know that it is impossible to study everybody on the planet about a certain condition. What you have to do is take a sample. I think this forum is not a bad way of showing how the land lies. It's a general Formula One forum and has fans from all over the world.

[AKR]

No, it is not a fact. McLaren and Ferrari are tied on fifteen wins in a season and the MP4/4 had a higher wining percentage. Those are the facts.

Again you twist reality. The so called percentage you claim is not counted by anyone. Search any offical record and find it for me if you feel that it really does matter. All that counts according to offcial records is that both Ferrari and McLaren are tied on 15 wins in one GP season and that Ferrari has done it twice to McLaren's once. Oh and one more thing. You just got out foxed by me Chris. Yes you really did. I lied about 1952. Ferrari did take part in the Indy 500 but retired. So the percentage there is 7 out of 8 races or 87.5 percent. But that stat doesn't count just like all the ones for the MP4/4 so who cares. Get over it Chris.

No, the tifosi are the scum, abusing fans of other teams at Grand Prix, and claiming Ferrari have a monopoly on success, passion and tradition in Formula One.

The second part is true. I know you find it hard to accept and thus need to resort to all you mind twisting games but it is reality so deal with it.

[bud]

the only thing Rightful about Ferrari is the stupidity of its lambs.... rightfully STFU with this right BS

[AKR]

the only thing Rightful about Ferrari is the stupidity of its lambs.... rightfully STFU with this right BS

Well clearly I know far too much (which is fact and you know it) to be one of those lambs, the other Ferrari supporters on this forum seem to know a lot as well, so who exacly are these lambs you refer to?

Now maybe you McLarenites are not all that useless. I need some help here. Someone, one of you McLarenites said Ferrari never raced at the Indy. Well in 1952 according to the following link, http://f1-facts.com/results/race/1952/62/classification Ferrari did race but didn't finish. Alberto Ascari retired. Click on the link and scroll down and you'll see. I don't know if this is right or wrong as that site I have proved to be a bit dodgy. Can perhaps you being a "Non Lamb" or anyone else clarify this one for me. The race at Indy was a 400 km race not a 500 km (According to the same website). If Ferrari did race then in that year they won 7 of 8 races which is 87.5 percentage winning. If it is wrong and they did not race then Ferrari won 7 of 7 races making 100 percent percentage win in a season.

[jsonf1]

Let´s put it this way,
The only thing that Macca fans really have is this story they made up at the "Mclaren losers festival" where they claim that FIA favours Ferrari. The only way you can look at this is that they have gone threw the facts and realised that they lost and the only way out is to make something up! PERIOD
A team have to be weak if they have to go and steal technical information from their rival. I can only imagine the pressure Mercedes is putting on them so I can kinda understand that they really are getting desperate.........Poor Mclaren.....

[bud]

the only thing Rightful about Ferrari is the stupidity of its lambs.... rightfully STFU with this right BS

Well clearly I know far too much (which is fact and you know it) to be one of those lambs, the other Ferrari supporters on this forum seem to know a lot as well, so who exacly are these lambs you refer to?

anyone who thinks their team has a "rightful place" pretty much sounds like some obsessive extremist lamb fanatic to me

[McLaren Fan]

Again you twist reality. The so called percentage you claim is not counted by anyone.

I'm twisting nothing. The fact of the matter is that the MP4/4 has a much higher winning percentage than the F2002 and F2004, plus any other Ferrari you want to mention.

If Ferrari did race then in that year they won 7 of 8 races which is 87.5 percentage winning. If it is wrong and they did not race then Ferrari won 7 of 7 races making 100 percent percentage win in a season.

Ferrari raced at India and, as you say, didn't win. If, buts and maybe don't count. I say again, the MP4/4 has the highest winning percentage of any car before or since.

[Gaz]

There are no records McLaren has more than Ferrari. None whatsoever.

Can I also point out, Ferrari never took part in CanAm, let alone won, have never won the Indy 500, and didn't win the Le Mans 24 hours on their debut. So there are some records that Mclaren have that Ferrari simply can't touch. Now if you're talking just about F1... Then I look forward to the day Ferrari is fined more than $100,000,000!!!

Ferrari will never get fined $100,000,000. If that happened Ferrari will say bye, bye and then that will also mean bye, bye F1. About CanA< and Indy 500 and LeMan 24 hours, so what if Ferrari didn't take part. This is about F1 so why even mention them. Ferrari have won IMSA before as well and McLaren have not. But do you see me mentioning IMSA? Ferrari are the greatest in F1. In other motorsport they are not, I know that and I don't even pretend they are. But I can still be proud to say that Lancia are the greatest in WRC (even after not being there since 1993) and Ford, Porsche and Alfa Romeo are great in many other motorsports so I'll be happy with that. Even going back to Ford and Porsche, some of McLaren's race and championship titles were powered by Ford and Porsche................................... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

err we won 4 times in a row powered by Honda.

even so since 1969 Ferrari have been powered by FIAT

Ferrari have had more Years in F1 than Mclaren so they bound to have a better record

"I feel that life is measured in achievement, not in years alone." - Bruce Mclaren

Mclaren have archived more than Ferrari in the 10 years less they have had.

What are you talking about. This decade alone Ferrari have achieved more than what McLaren ever had and will. Between 2000 and 2004 Ferrari were untouchable. Ferrari did better than McLaren in 2006 and only were bettered by Renault whom are ok and once again Ferrari won everything rightfully in 2007. In 2008 Ferrari again wins the constructors. All McLaren amanged to do in 10 or so years is win a drivers title this year and one that will probably not be repeated in a long time. McLaren compare to Ferrari? Ha, what an absoulute joke! Fact is nothing is as great and nothing can compare to Ferrari. Ferrari is like a god in motorracing. Everyone with half a brain knows to desire them and how great they are. McLaren well they might have made a few good race cars over the years, but your average Nissan or Toyota has more to them than McLaren. Gee at least a car like the Nissan GT-R is a full Nissan. And a good one too. What the hell is a McLaren. At the moment it has a Mercedes Engine. Their once off road car had a BMW engine. In the past their race cars have been powered by Peageot, Ford, Honda, Porsche and even Alfa Romeo. Who the hell are McLaren compared to Ferrari. Total trash if you ask me.

"Ever had and Will" - there you go again with your stupid childish insults because ferrari will never be suppased well one day it might happen don't be so deluded

2000 - Schui/Ferrari Wins - Mclaren Drivers finish 2nd and 3rd 8points in constructors hardly untouchable

2001 - This was a good year for Ferrari but hardly the dominance the 1988 Mclaren showed

2002 - Ferrari's best year but 2 wins of matching Mclarens Mp4/4

2003 - Close year between Kimi and Schui if the Mclaren was more reliable would of been Kimi's title.

2004 - Another great year for Ferrari - Mclaren were no where.

So ypu had 4 good years before 2005 you were 3rd and 2nd in 06 IN 07 you only won because of Mclarens stupid penalty we were the better car and team in 2007 and in 2008 we were very close but Ferrari won.

So you had 4 good years in Formula 1.

1984 - Mclaren wins 12 of 16 races Ferrari win 1
1985 - Mclaren win 6 6 of 10 races Ferrari wins 2
1986 - Williams Wins 9 races Mclaren 4 Lotus 2 and Ferrari none.
1987 - Williams wins 9, Mclaren 3, Lotus 2, and Ferrari 2 again as in 1986 Ferrari finish 4th
1988 - Mclaren 15 Wins, 25 Podiums and 15 Poles Ferrari manage 1 win if one Mclaren didn't win the other did apart from in Monza.
1989 - Mclaren 10 Wins Williams 2 Ferrari 3
1990 - Mclaren 6 wins Ferrari 6 Mclaren wins
1991 - Mclaren 8 Wins Willaims 7, Ferrari none

So we had 4 good years too 88-91 and were the most scsefull team of the 80s and Williams were the most successful team of the 90s

all in all Ferrari has 8 more titles than Mclaren but only 2 more Driver titles

6 of which were before Mclaren joined F1 so comparing only years where Mclaren participated alongside Ferrari

Ferrari have 9 WDC compared to Mclaren's 12
Ferrari have 14(13) Constructors compared to 8(9) for Mclaren

[McLaren Fan]

It's also worth noting that teams go through bad patches. In the mid-1990s, McLaren struggled because they couldn't find a good engine supplier. Since 2000, the team couldn't take the extra step and win titles because of internal politics: the Technology Centre was being built and for some time some of the McLaren Group's possessions were in storage; Adrian Newey wasn't doing his job properly, was allowed free reign on artistic car designs and wanted to design boats; Mercedes were increasing their shareholding in McLaren; and in 2001, Paul Morgan died, and then Mercedes took over Ilmor; so all of this was bound to be unsettling. Since these matters have been gradually dealt with, McLaren's performance has improved.