FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[Denthúl]

I don't believe any team would hold back their number 2 driver all year if he was consistently faster than their number 1 driver, it wouldn't make any sense. That is why the teams usually let the season get underway before they start pulling team orders in favor of whoever has a better chance at the championship.

Rubens was more than occasionally a match for Schumacher. Irvine had plenty of potential for it, too. I wouldn't say that they could be better out-right, but there were certainly times when you got the impression that they were, indeed, being held back. Rubens and Eddie both admitted that it was in their contract!

I agree, it always upset me when Barichello was not allowed to beat Schumacher, but if I was paying Schumacher's
salary I too would want to do anything possible to help his chances at a championship.
I can't seem to find the Stats on how many times Schumacher was outqualified by Barichello or Irvine but I'd be willing to bet it wasn't to often.

Well, stats for Barrichello:

1 in 2000
1 in 2001
4 in 2002
6 in 2003
5 in 2004
7 in 2005

So not bad, and since we don't know what strategies they were on, we can't really say what that counts for, unfortunately.

For Irvine:

1 in 1996
1 in 1997
1 in 1998
1 in 1999 (although Schumacher missed a load of races that, as a result, can't be counted anyway)

[csrracer]

I don't believe any team would hold back their number 2 driver all year if he was consistently faster than their number 1 driver, it wouldn't make any sense. That is why the teams usually let the season get underway before they start pulling team orders in favor of whoever has a better chance at the championship.

Rubens was more than occasionally a match for Schumacher. Irvine had plenty of potential for it, too. I wouldn't say that they could be better out-right, but there were certainly times when you got the impression that they were, indeed, being held back. Rubens and Eddie both admitted that it was in their contract!

I agree, it always upset me when Barichello was not allowed to beat Schumacher, but if I was paying Schumacher's
salary I too would want to do anything possible to help his chances at a championship.
I can't seem to find the Stats on how many times Schumacher was outqualified by Barichello or Irvine but I'd be willing to bet it wasn't to often.

Well, stats for Barrichello:

1 in 2000
1 in 2001
4 in 2002
6 in 2003
5 in 2004
7 in 2005

So not bad, and since we don't know what strategies they were on, we can't really say what that counts for, unfortunately.

For Irvine:

1 in 1996
1 in 1997
1 in 1998
1 in 1999 (although Schumacher missed a load of races that, as a result, can't be counted anyway)

2004 would have been a much better season if Barichello was allowed to race Schumacher and Ferrari would have won either way, of course that's always easier to call in hindsight. Is this the year they came up with the "Team Orders" rule?
I think what I was the most upset about was Ferrari letting Barichello go after 2006. He was a good team player and should have been given a shot at a championship for Ferrari.

[Denthúl]

I don't believe any team would hold back their number 2 driver all year if he was consistently faster than their number 1 driver, it wouldn't make any sense. That is why the teams usually let the season get underway before they start pulling team orders in favor of whoever has a better chance at the championship.

Rubens was more than occasionally a match for Schumacher. Irvine had plenty of potential for it, too. I wouldn't say that they could be better out-right, but there were certainly times when you got the impression that they were, indeed, being held back. Rubens and Eddie both admitted that it was in their contract!

I agree, it always upset me when Barichello was not allowed to beat Schumacher, but if I was paying Schumacher's
salary I too would want to do anything possible to help his chances at a championship.
I can't seem to find the Stats on how many times Schumacher was outqualified by Barichello or Irvine but I'd be willing to bet it wasn't to often.

Well, stats for Barrichello:

1 in 2000
1 in 2001
4 in 2002
6 in 2003
5 in 2004
7 in 2005

So not bad, and since we don't know what strategies they were on, we can't really say what that counts for, unfortunately.

For Irvine:

1 in 1996
1 in 1997
1 in 1998
1 in 1999 (although Schumacher missed a load of races that, as a result, can't be counted anyway)

2004 would have been a much better season if Barichello was allowed to race Schumacher and Ferrari would have won either way, of course that's always easier to call in hindsight. Is this the year they came up with the "Team Orders" rule?

Nope. The ruling on team orders came in to play following the aftermath of Austria 2002, so team orders were officially banned at that point. But we know that they still went on at time to time in every team.

[Gaz]

I don't believe any team would hold back their number 2 driver all year if he was consistently faster than their number 1 driver, it wouldn't make any sense. That is why the teams usually let the season get underway before they start pulling team orders in favor of whoever has a better chance at the championship.

Rubens was more than occasionally a match for Schumacher. Irvine had plenty of potential for it, too. I wouldn't say that they could be better out-right, but there were certainly times when you got the impression that they were, indeed, being held back. Rubens and Eddie both admitted that it was in their contract!

I agree, it always upset me when Barichello was not allowed to beat Schumacher, but if I was paying Schumacher's
salary I too would want to do anything possible to help his chances at a championship.
I can't seem to find the Stats on how many times Schumacher was outqualified by Barichello or Irvine but I'd be willing to bet it wasn't to often.

Well, stats for Barrichello:

1 in 2000
1 in 2001
4 in 2002
6 in 2003
5 in 2004
7 in 2005

So not bad, and since we don't know what strategies they were on, we can't really say what that counts for, unfortunately.

For Irvine:

1 in 1996
1 in 1997
1 in 1998
1 in 1999 (although Schumacher missed a load of races that, as a result, can't be counted anyway)

2004 would have been a much better season if Barichello was allowed to race Schumacher and Ferrari would have won either way, of course that's always easier to call in hindsight. Is this the year they came up with the "Team Orders" rule?

Nope. The ruling on team orders came in to play following the aftermath of Austria 2002, so team orders were officially banned at that point. But we know that they still went on at time to time in every team.

And proberly still do, there's no way you can stop them really

[csrracer]

It would be nice if it wasn't a rule to have heard Kimi's post race interview " I was much faster then Felipe today, but the team wanted me to slow down, so I had to park the car and let him go by"

[Gaz]

It would be nice if it wasn't a rule to have heard Kimi's post race interview " I was much faster then Felipe today, but the team wanted me to slow down, so I had to park the car and let him go by"

Yeh and then if Felipe shouted back "i did it for you in brazil" and then Kimi was all like "I took you in the pits man what are you talking about" and then Felipe wa all like "You owe me one kimi" and then Kimi throws water on Felipe and then Felipe throws so back.

Yeh we need a water fight in the Press conference not had one for awhile.

[bmwpower]

Eventhough team orders are illegal, it is used by all the teams on the grid and it starts with qualifying. LH qualified lighter then his mate HK, Massa was fueled lighter the Kimi with the intent of putting him in front of his teammate but he couldn't put down the times required to beat his mate. Both teams used team orders to move one teammate in front of another in qualifyng to change the outcome of the race, its been done to death and I see nothing wrong it with but if they do something similiar in Austria with Micheal, then it looks really bad.

[deMuRe]

If team orders are against the rules, how come there is no penalty against ferrari for China farce in the closing stages. If they wanted to confirm you'd only have to check Raikonnen's telemetary to see he'd lifted off to let Massa by, and Raikonnen practically admitted it in the press conference.
Why did no one hardly mention it after? There was a big hoo haa when Scumacher (and I think Barichello?) did a last lap swap for points a few years back.

People were just sick of seeing Schumacher win everything and the weekend of the incident that got so much attention, Austriagate, was a weekend where Barichello had been fastest all weekend and the fans thought he deserved the win.

The FIA are just reacting to the rage of the fans, team orders will always be a part of F1.

[racechick]

If team orders are against the rules, how come there is no penalty against ferrari for China farce in the closing stages. If they wanted to confirm you'd only have to check Raikonnen's telemetary to see he'd lifted off to let Massa by, and Raikonnen practically admitted it in the press conference.
Why did no one hardly mention it after? There was a big hoo haa when Scumacher (and I think Barichello?) did a last lap swap for points a few years back.

People were just sick of seeing Schumacher win everything and the weekend of the incident that got so much attention, Austriagate, was a weekend where Barichello had been fastest all weekend and the fans thought he deserved the win.


The FIA are just reacting to the rage of the fans, team orders will always be a part of F1.

People were not sick of him winning, they were sick of years of these sort of antics
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jo08hkDpINM

[deMuRe]

If team orders are against the rules, how come there is no penalty against ferrari for China farce in the closing stages. If they wanted to confirm you'd only have to check Raikonnen's telemetary to see he'd lifted off to let Massa by, and Raikonnen practically admitted it in the press conference.
Why did no one hardly mention it after? There was a big hoo haa when Scumacher (and I think Barichello?) did a last lap swap for points a few years back.

People were just sick of seeing Schumacher win everything and the weekend of the incident that got so much attention, Austriagate, was a weekend where Barichello had been fastest all weekend and the fans thought he deserved the win.


The FIA are just reacting to the rage of the fans, team orders will always be a part of F1.

People were not sick of him winning, they were sick of years of these sort of antics
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jo08hkDpINM

Ratings dipped so bad in 2004 because everyone expected Michael to win Bernie had to intervene. People were sick of Michael winning everything.