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By f1fan
#74080
My question is this:

Where do others think Ferrari would finish in Constructors' if it weren't for the FIAs favoritism?
2nd, behind McLaren, or 3rd behind BMW?
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By racechick
#74081
My question is this:

Where do others think Ferrari would finish in Constructors' if it weren't for the FIAs favoritism?
2nd, behind McLaren, or 3rd behind BMW?


Good question, cant be bothered to work it out though. If it wereFerrari rather than just massa you looked at as receiving favours then the ramming of suthil should have received something, sure would have done if Lewis had done it. Dont know. Someone good at maths work it out!
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By cap-dude
#74082
I'm good at Maths. They'd be first, end off. You can't just say what if, because then you have to take everything into account, errors, unforced errros, reliability. Really, it this season went as smooth as last year, its more likely that Massa would leading. But don't know, simply because these things happen, and we can't go back and change them.
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By racechick
#74084
I'm good at Maths. They'd be first, end off. You can't just say what if, because then you have to take everything into account, errors, unforced errros, reliability. Really, it this season went as smooth as last year, its more likely that Massa would leading. But don't know, simply because these things happen, and we can't go back and change them.

No I think we are just thinking FIA favours here not reliabilty or team cock-ups.
#74085
I'm good at Maths. They'd be first, end off. You can't just say what if, because then you have to take everything into account, errors, unforced errros, reliability. Really, it this season went as smooth as last year, its more likely that Massa would leading. But don't know, simply because these things happen, and we can't go back and change them.

Eh, no, you don't. Errors, such as engine failures and botched-up pit-stops are a part of motorsport, and Formula One is no exception to that. The governing body trying to dictate the outcome of the championship is not meant to be a part of motorsport, or indeed any sport. With the FIA's intervention, the race for the constructors' championship would still be ongoing, with McLaren favourites to win the title.
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By cap-dude
#74093
So here we go again, the FIA are apparently bais towards McLaren.
Lets see, Malaysia penalty. Both Lewis and Kovy clearly blocked Heidfeld.
Canada, clear cut decision.
France, again. He completely cut the chicane, anyone else would've been punished.
Spa, there was a lot of controversy over this one. But its true. Lewis would of hit a wall had it not been removed, and if he followed the corner normally, he wouldn't have passed Kimi so easily into turn 1, so an advantage was gained, and thats what stewarts decided.
Fuji, in my opinion, Lewis' aggressive driving was punished here. The week before in monza, he had quite a few moments, like pushing glock of the road, but there was no penalty. What the stewarts do instead, is watch closely next weekend to see that it doesn't happen again.

I mean, you can't say the stewarts are bais. Hamilton is very aggressive, but he doesn't learn from it.
Plus, Massa has had penalties. I mean, what was the one in singapore about. Plus he had to give up position to rosberg in monza despite the fact it was pretty much clean.

Also, the stewarts change every weekend. How can they all be bais.
By Gaz
#74096
So here we go again, the FIA are apparently bais towards McLaren.
Lets see, Malaysia penalty. Both Lewis and Kovy clearly blocked Heidfeld.
Canada, clear cut decision.
France, again. He completely cut the chicane, anyone else would've been punished.
Spa, there was a lot of controversy over this one. But its true. Lewis would of hit a wall had it not been removed, and if he followed the corner normally, he wouldn't have passed Kimi so easily into turn 1, so an advantage was gained, and thats what stewarts decided.
Fuji, in my opinion, Lewis' aggressive driving was punished here. The week before in monza, he had quite a few moments, like pushing glock of the road, but there was no penalty. What the stewarts do instead, is watch closely next weekend to see that it doesn't happen again.

I mean, you can't say the stewarts are bais. Hamilton is very aggressive, but he doesn't learn from it.
Plus, Massa has had penalties. I mean, what was the one in singapore about. Plus he had to give up position to rosberg in monza despite the fact it was pretty much clean.

Also, the stewarts change every weekend. How can they all be bais.


Malaysia, is abit iffy because no one saw it.

Canada was stupid it was just a simple mistake and they should of left it at that

France was utter poo considering 1. He was past vettle when he cut the chicane and 2. when alonso did something simlar in japan i believe he was told to give the place back.

Spa was Complete and utter bias he did that which was expected of him by giving the place back.

Fuji was Harsh on Lewis and very Leaniant on Massa that should of been a 10sec stop and go for Massa

Bringing me to my next point, Massa got away with that Pitstop in Valencia if that was a Mclaren there would of been a drive though.
And then Massa hits Seb B in Japan and Seb gets punished.

Its Bollacks anyone that says the FIA is not bias to the point of letting Ferrari off and punishing mclaren is blind.
User avatar
By racechick
#74098
So here we go again, the FIA are apparently bais towards McLaren.
Lets see, Malaysia penalty. Both Lewis and Kovy clearly blocked Heidfeld.
Canada, clear cut decision.
France, again. He completely cut the chicane, anyone else would've been punished.
Spa, there was a lot of controversy over this one. But its true. Lewis would of hit a wall had it not been removed, and if he followed the corner normally, he wouldn't have passed Kimi so easily into turn 1, so an advantage was gained, and thats what stewarts decided.
Fuji, in my opinion, Lewis' aggressive driving was punished here. The week before in monza, he had quite a few moments, like pushing glock of the road, but there was no penalty. What the stewarts do instead, is watch closely next weekend to see that it doesn't happen again.

I mean, you can't say the stewarts are bais. Hamilton is very aggressive, but he doesn't learn from it.
Plus, Massa has had penalties. I mean, what was the one in singapore about. Plus he had to give up position to rosberg in monza despite the fact it was pretty much clean.

Also, the stewarts change every weekend. How can they all be bais.


Malaysia, is abit iffy because no one saw it.

Canada was stupid it was just a simple mistake and they should of left it at that

France was utter poo considering 1. He was past vettle when he cut the chicane and 2. when alonso did something simlar in japan i believe he was told to give the place back.

Spa was Complete and utter bias he did that which was expected of him by giving the place back.

Fuji was Harsh on Lewis and very Leaniant on Massa that should of been a 10sec stop and go for Massa

Bringing me to my next point, Massa got away with that Pitstop in Valencia if that was a Mclaren there would of been a drive though.
And then Massa hits Seb B in Japan and Seb gets punished.

Its Bollacks anyone that says the FIA is not bias to the point of letting Ferrari off and punishing mclaren is blind.


:yes::yes::yes:
#74103
Malaysia, is abit iffy because no one saw it.

Canada was stupid it was just a simple mistake and they should of left it at that

France was utter poo considering 1. He was past vettle when he cut the chicane and 2. when alonso did something simlar in japan i believe he was told to give the place back.

Spa was Complete and utter bias he did that which was expected of him by giving the place back.

Fuji was Harsh on Lewis and very Leaniant on Massa that should of been a 10sec stop and go for Massa

Bringing me to my next point, Massa got away with that Pitstop in Valencia if that was a Mclaren there would of been a drive though.
And then Massa hits Seb B in Japan and Seb gets punished.

Its Bollacks anyone that says the FIA is not bias to the point of letting Ferrari off and punishing mclaren is blind.

The only thing I disagree with you on is Hamilton's penalty for ramming into the back of Raikkonen. If you were to draw up your list of top ten Formula One gaffes, that incident would be somewhere near the top. Hamilton's mistake ended up taking somebody else out of the race, so that also has to be considered. In terms of this year's Japanese Grand Prix, Massa should have been black-flagged. Deliberately or not is no matter to me, for he punted his title rival out of the race, and that could have had a serious effect on which way the title swung. And not only was Massa allowed to keep on racing, the people who he wronged, Bourdais and Webber, were blamed for his lunacy and Massa was gifted points by the governing body for this! The FIA has always been corrupt and anybody who believes it's not corrupt at the minute is in denial, blind or mentally ill.
By Gaz
#74108
Malaysia, is abit iffy because no one saw it.

Canada was stupid it was just a simple mistake and they should of left it at that

France was utter poo considering 1. He was past vettle when he cut the chicane and 2. when alonso did something simlar in japan i believe he was told to give the place back.

Spa was Complete and utter bias he did that which was expected of him by giving the place back.

Fuji was Harsh on Lewis and very Leaniant on Massa that should of been a 10sec stop and go for Massa

Bringing me to my next point, Massa got away with that Pitstop in Valencia if that was a Mclaren there would of been a drive though.
And then Massa hits Seb B in Japan and Seb gets punished.

Its Bollacks anyone that says the FIA is not bias to the point of letting Ferrari off and punishing mclaren is blind.



The only thing I disagree with you on is Hamilton's penalty for ramming into the back of Raikkonen. If you were to draw up your list of top ten Formula One gaffes, that incident would be somewhere near the top. Hamilton's mistake ended up taking somebody else out of the race, so that also has to be considered. In terms of this year's Japanese Grand Prix, Massa should have been black-flagged. Deliberately or not is no matter to me, for he punted his title rival out of the race, and that could have had a serious effect on which way the title swung. And not only was Massa allowed to keep on racing, the people who he wronged, Bourdais and Webber, were blamed for his lunacy and Massa was gifted points by the governing body for this! The FIA has always been corrupt and anybody who believes it's not corrupt at the minute is in denial, blind or mentally ill.


The thing is, its a racing error just like Kimi made an error when he rammed into the back of Sutil. He missed the lights so did Nico it was a genuine mistake if.

Just like when Kimi lost it it was a genuine mistake.

My problem with it is, Massa vs Sutil in Valencia was more dangerous yet he got a fine and i have the feeling that if it was kimi who hit lewis nothing would of happened.
By Rorschach
#74116
Without getting into the conspiracy theories - probably be first, as they are right now, or second at worst - if HK had picked up enough points. Only about 35% of McClaren points have been picked up by HK this season. Quite poor really, even taking into account all the usual excuses for him of tyre wear and fuel load etc (like no other driver has to contend with these things).
User avatar
By Denthúl
#74118
Malaysia, is abit iffy because no one saw it.

Canada was stupid it was just a simple mistake and they should of left it at that

France was utter poo considering 1. He was past vettle when he cut the chicane and 2. when alonso did something simlar in japan i believe he was told to give the place back.

Spa was Complete and utter bias he did that which was expected of him by giving the place back.

Fuji was Harsh on Lewis and very Leaniant on Massa that should of been a 10sec stop and go for Massa

Bringing me to my next point, Massa got away with that Pitstop in Valencia if that was a Mclaren there would of been a drive though.
And then Massa hits Seb B in Japan and Seb gets punished.

Its Bollacks anyone that says the FIA is not bias to the point of letting Ferrari off and punishing mclaren is blind.



The only thing I disagree with you on is Hamilton's penalty for ramming into the back of Raikkonen. If you were to draw up your list of top ten Formula One gaffes, that incident would be somewhere near the top. Hamilton's mistake ended up taking somebody else out of the race, so that also has to be considered. In terms of this year's Japanese Grand Prix, Massa should have been black-flagged. Deliberately or not is no matter to me, for he punted his title rival out of the race, and that could have had a serious effect on which way the title swung. And not only was Massa allowed to keep on racing, the people who he wronged, Bourdais and Webber, were blamed for his lunacy and Massa was gifted points by the governing body for this! The FIA has always been corrupt and anybody who believes it's not corrupt at the minute is in denial, blind or mentally ill.


The thing is, its a racing error just like Kimi made an error when he rammed into the back of Sutil. He missed the lights so did Nico it was a genuine mistake if.

Just like when Kimi lost it it was a genuine mistake.

My problem with it is, Massa vs Sutil in Valencia was more dangerous yet he got a fine and i have the feeling that if it was kimi who hit lewis nothing would of happened.


There is a huge safety concern with the pit light incident that does not apply to the Raikkonen/Sutil incident, though, and that is the train of cars behind the safety car. Imagine if Kimi hadn't been in Lewis' way and he just ran the red light? He could've come out and ploughed in to the safety car or, indeed, any other car that was following it around and caused a major pile-up.

With Kimi, it was just a silly mistake on a drying track. The two are totally different and I fail to see how people manage to compare them (and then cry out in a ridiculous manner when one is punished after the other is not) in the way that they do.
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By bud
#74119
Without getting into the conspiracy theories - probably be first, as they are right now, or second at worst - if HK had picked up enough points. Only about 35% of McClaren points have been picked up by HK this season. Quite poor really, even taking into account all the usual excuses for him of tyre wear and fuel load etc (like no other driver has to contend with these things).


he has had alot of technical DNF's or mishaps that were not his fault that have not helped!

as for todays race, he had his brake issues plus he surely flat spotted his front right pretty badly in the opening laps when he was tangling with Fernando which made him lose time in the first stint.
User avatar
By Denthúl
#74120
Without getting into the conspiracy theories - probably be first, as they are right now, or second at worst - if HK had picked up enough points. Only about 35% of McClaren points have been picked up by HK this season. Quite poor really, even taking into account all the usual excuses for him of tyre wear and fuel load etc (like no other driver has to contend with these things).


he has had alot of technical DNF's or mishaps that were not his fault that have not helped!

as for todays race, he had his brake issues plus he surely flat spotted his front right pretty badly in the opening laps when he was tangling with Fernando which made him lose time in the first stint.


I'd like to know more about his brake issues, because he's had them in more than one race this season and they seem to have hindered him quite a lot. It may be worth changing the materials and dimensions of them to help him out, because it's obviously not a problem that is going away any time soon. If Brazil is hotter than China (which we would expect if it's dry) then they could be worse there.
User avatar
By bud
#74123
There is a huge safety concern with the pit light incident that does not apply to the Raikkonen/Sutil incident, though, and that is the train of cars behind the safety car. Imagine if Kimi hadn't been in Lewis' way and he just ran the red light? He could've come out and ploughed in to the safety car or, indeed, any other car that was following it around and caused a major pile-up.

With Kimi, it was just a silly mistake on a drying track. The two are totally different and I fail to see how people manage to compare them (and then cry out in a ridiculous manner when one is punished after the other is not) in the way that they do.


i think youre making it bigger than what it is, its not a huge safety concern, there havent been any huge issues in the past, and they are going back to the old rules next year so no more closing the entrance and exit to the pitlane thank jebus.

as for the Kimi Sutil crash, fans want to see consistency on the rulings. Kimi ruined Sutils race compared to Bordais and Massa which one is worse?

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