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[Gaz]

Being a huge Jim Henson fan, I take that as a compliment, thank you.

Look, I disagree with the penalty on Bourdais also, but you guys are being ridiculous. Seriously, go back and read your posts. If half of what you are saying is true then why would any team beside Ferrari be racing in the series? The FIA makes bad calls, Major League Baseball makes bad calls, FIFA makes bad calls, drunk guys at bars full of fat chicks make bad calls... s**t happens, especially in racing.

I'll stop yanking your chains now. Enjoy your ranting.

yeh but this s*** keeps happening.

If everyone on the fourm including the odd ferrari fan is saying the FIA are being bais then the fact is most people think the FIA is bais.

Your wrong, so get off your soap box and and stop chatting shi*e.

[Gaz]

double post

[csrracer]

That last comment was a perfect example, thank you.

and youre a perfect example of a blind Ferrari sheep

Listen Brad, I was only saying half that stuff to that Maily guy as he is beyond the definiton of "rude". Whatever he through at me I through back weather I meant it or not. Unfortunality with F1 like all sports, everyone cheats. McLaren does it and so does Ferrari. It is simple. You will defend the team you love, McLaren and I like other Ferrari Tifosi will defend mine. I didn't see the stuff that has been happenning in F1 this bad and exagerated up until the 2007 season. This is when Lewis Hamilton came into the picture. I don't know what it is but maybe Max Mosley doesn't like him and wants to see him lose. May be Mosley is racist and doesn't want to see a black man win. I don't know but it wasn't this bad prior 2007. There was the odd thing happening here and there but not the extent of now. Ferrari happens to be the team that can only challenge Lewis Hamilton right now. Not even Hamilon's team mate can challenge right now. If it were Alonso at Renault Vs Hamilton for the title instead of Massa against Hamilton I bet all this contravesay would still happen and go Alonso's way. But he wouldn't be Ferrari but Renault. I think Mosley hates Hamilton and Ron Dennis for that matter and is siding with whoever it is that can come close to beating them and that team for the last 2 years just happens to be Ferrari. I don't believe Ferrari are cheats, I think it is just Mosley that is a racist prick and Ferrari unfortunitly is tangled in all this.

AKR Very well put, I couldn't agree with you more, and here I thought you were the queen of all Ferrari sheep, I toatlly misjudged you.
Maily your personal attacks go way too far..........

[Hanwombat]

Lighten up guys, I have been stirring MISS KIMI (AKR) because she is a poor uneducated Slovenian/Italian girl, who does not know any better but to follow Ferarri, but it is all light hearted.

Was that insult necessary? That is low, very low. Given my obvious high level of intelligance it is quite obvious you have none since you cannot work out that most of the time I am joking and just "stirring the pot" in the same way McLaren fans stir the pot back. You my be roughly double my age but I have no regrets telling you to learn to know how and when to joke and not cross the line. Bag Ferrari all you like if it pleases you but don't make this personal towards others as that is how I feel towards you right now.

Maily some of your posts are a bit over the top, I do question your maturity.

Hey Hannah, thanks for sticking up for me. Appeciated.

No Problem

[martinthomas]

And Mr AKR, you are a w***er who has his head up his bias arse. Give people credit where it is due.

Umm excuse meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. To start with its Miss AKR, incase you haven't notice under my where I am from it says Ferrari Tifosa, note tifosa ending with an a, not an o meaning feminine......... You GOVNO! Secondly you can hope Lewis Hamilton wil win the next 5 championships just like I can hope Massa will the next 5 as well. It wont happen especially if Lewis Hamilton stays at McLaren all his life. And lastly on a nicer note, my name is Kiki, what is yours and where are you from?

Well, I've only been reading the forum for a short while but I should have realised sooner that you were female!!! AKR, you usually contribute complete Ferrari biased drivel and when I checked your profile, it did not surprise me to see that you are responsible for 2.12% of ALL the posts on this site at a rate of more than 5 posts per day!!
Bud's points are very well made and when you see the whole picture, it is very revealing. The only reason that McLaren/Hamilton/true motor racing fans are uptight about these events is because so many decisions are inexplicable eg the Spa debacle and the Bourdais/Massa incident in China, with the predictable result that Ferrari seems to benefit.

There has to be a conflict of interest in Alan Donnelly's position, being linked to Ferrari and leading stewards' enquiries.

Recent events have brought ridicule to the "sport" and made it seem somewhat dirty.

I just hope Lewis wins the championship this year, in spite of the FIA.

By the way, I have always thought of Ferrari road cars as overpriced and fragile and I would not have one. It always amazes me when a Ferrari finishes a GP and I expect you are amazed as well!!!
Ciao.

[AKR]

And Mr AKR, you are a w***er who has his head up his bias arse. Give people credit where it is due.

Umm excuse meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. To start with its Miss AKR, incase you haven't notice under my where I am from it says Ferrari Tifosa, note tifosa ending with an a, not an o meaning feminine......... You GOVNO! Secondly you can hope Lewis Hamilton wil win the next 5 championships just like I can hope Massa will the next 5 as well. It wont happen especially if Lewis Hamilton stays at McLaren all his life. And lastly on a nicer note, my name is Kiki, what is yours and where are you from?

Well, I've only been reading the forum for a short while but I should have realised sooner that you were female!!! AKR, you usually contribute complete Ferrari biased drivel and when I checked your profile, it did not surprise me to see that you are responsible for 2.12% of ALL the posts on this site at a rate of more than 5 posts per day!!
Bud's points are very well made and when you see the whole picture, it is very revealing. The only reason that McLaren/Hamilton/true motor racing fans are uptight about these events is because so many decisions are inexplicable eg the Spa debacle and the Bourdais/Massa incident in China, with the predictable result that Ferrari seems to benefit.

There has to be a conflict of interest in Alan Donnelly's position, being linked to Ferrari and leading stewards' enquiries.

Recent events have brought ridicule to the "sport" and made it seem somewhat dirty.

I just hope Lewis wins the championship this year, in spite of the FIA.

By the way, I have always thought of Ferrari road cars as overpriced and fragile and I would not have one. It always amazes me when a Ferrari finishes a GP and I expect you are amazed as well!!!
Ciao.

I have a fair amount of post but then again a lot of the time I am battling battles on my own. It is usually myself representing Ferrari versus McLarenites, McLaren Fan, Bud and Longbow. 3 verus 1 and sometimes it can be something like 6 versus 1 so that explains my average of more than 5 posts a day.

I feel what the FIA is doing (if true) is not good. Many times I play jokes and say I like it to get the McLarenites fired up and back for their biasism, but in all reality it is bad for the sport. I feel this year Massa may win in the end, not because he is the better driver, but more because the FIA wants it to be him. I feel Mosley would prefer Massa to win or even Kubica if it happened to be that Massa totally stuffs it up and Kubica happens to be at the right spot at the right time simply because of what Mosley wants. I personally think that Mosley is a racist person. I don't need to go further as you probably know where this is heading. I personally don't like Lewis Hamilton to win it more because I don't like him. He is arrogant, has a big mouth, drives dangerously and also has not served his time. Massa is the exaxt opposite to this. Even in 2007, I never believed Kimi could do it at the end. I really though either Lewis Hamilton or Alosno (Then a McLaren driver) would win it and I was clearly going for Alonso for the fact and reasons that I do not like Lewis Hamilton.

Eitherway whatever happens in the last 2 races is out of our control. At the worst I hope Ferrari wins at least the constructors title as I feel we strobgly deserve that. If Lewis Hamilton wins the drivers title, he may very well deserve it, but it will leave a sour taste in my throat for the simple fact and reasons that I do not like him (already mentioned above) and had that would be winner be another driver at McLaren, then my feelings would be a lot different.

[AKR]

From pf1.com

Stewards questioned Webber over Massa move
Thursday 16th October 2008

Fresh controversy over the stewarding of the Japanese GP has been sparked by the revelation that Felipe Massa's move past Mark Webber on the penultimate lap was investigated - but only to determine if the Red Bull driver ought to be punished for allegedly forcing the World Championship contender wide.

In the process of overtaking Webber for the final points-paying position, Massa crossed the white lines along the pit-straight deemed to indicate the limits of the race track. As Massa passed the Australian, all four wheels of his Ferrari were placed in the pit-lane exit, prompting some observers, especially during these litigious times, to question whether his move illegal. By the letter of the rulebook, any driver who leaves the race-track has committed an offence that warrants a penalty.

However, far from probe Massa's manoeuvre, the stewards are instead reported to have questioned Webber over whether he resisted the Ferrari too robustly - an offence that Sebastian Bourdais was seemingly found guilty of.

'It turns out the stewards spoke to Webber about this,' reports The Times' F1 correspondent Ed Gorman in his blog. 'They were quite happy with Massa's driving at this point but were concerned about Webber "pushing Massa into the wall." There was "never any question in relation to the legality" of Massa's move. The stewards saw this as primarily a safety issue.'

As an aside, Gorman also reports that the stewards remain adamant that they were right to punish Lewis Hamilton for allegedly forcing Kimi Raikkonen off the track at the first corner of the race.

'I have the impression that the powers-that-be regard Lewis's driving in Fuji at Turn 1 as bordering on reckless and that if he had touched another car or caused an accident he would be looking at a 10-place penalty in Shanghai,' he claims.

It's unclear whether the 10-place penalty would have been imposed in addition to his drive-through penalty at Suzuka. Immediately after the race, Kimi Raikkonen accused Hamilton of hitting his Ferrari, but, after footage to the contrary materialised, he withdrew the claim. As yet, there has been no confirmation from the stewards that, they also investigated the driving of Heikki Kovalainen, who definitely did bang wheels with Raikkonen's Ferrari and was apparently guilty of forcing his fellow Finn off the track.

If this is the case then I feel Massa has very much going to win as the FIA and Stewards who are on the FIA payroll are going to make Massa win one way or another.

[racechick]

From pf1.com

Stewards questioned Webber over Massa move
Thursday 16th October 2008

Fresh controversy over the stewarding of the Japanese GP has been sparked by the revelation that Felipe Massa's move past Mark Webber on the penultimate lap was investigated - but only to determine if the Red Bull driver ought to be punished for allegedly forcing the World Championship contender wide.

In the process of overtaking Webber for the final points-paying position, Massa crossed the white lines along the pit-straight deemed to indicate the limits of the race track. As Massa passed the Australian, all four wheels of his Ferrari were placed in the pit-lane exit, prompting some observers, especially during these litigious times, to question whether his move illegal. By the letter of the rulebook, any driver who leaves the race-track has committed an offence that warrants a penalty.

However, far from probe Massa's manoeuvre, the stewards are instead reported to have questioned Webber over whether he resisted the Ferrari too robustly - an offence that Sebastian Bourdais was seemingly found guilty of.

'It turns out the stewards spoke to Webber about this,' reports The Times' F1 correspondent Ed Gorman in his blog. 'They were quite happy with Massa's driving at this point but were concerned about Webber "pushing Massa into the wall." There was "never any question in relation to the legality" of Massa's move. The stewards saw this as primarily a safety issue.'

As an aside, Gorman also reports that the stewards remain adamant that they were right to punish Lewis Hamilton for allegedly forcing Kimi Raikkonen off the track at the first corner of the race.

'I have the impression that the powers-that-be regard Lewis's driving in Fuji at Turn 1 as bordering on reckless and that if he had touched another car or caused an accident he would be looking at a 10-place penalty in Shanghai,' he claims.

It's unclear whether the 10-place penalty would have been imposed in addition to his drive-through penalty at Suzuka. Immediately after the race, Kimi Raikkonen accused Hamilton of hitting his Ferrari, but, after footage to the contrary materialised, he withdrew the claim. As yet, there has been no confirmation from the stewards that, they also investigated the driving of Heikki Kovalainen, who definitely did bang wheels with Raikkonen's Ferrari and was apparently guilty of forcing his fellow Finn off the track.

If this is the case then I feel Massa has very much going to win as the FIA and Stewards who are on the FIA payroll are going to make Massa win one way or another.

Its unbelievable Kiki! Can you not see this is wrong and belittles Massa and all race fans??

[Tony_sa]

amazing how you guys sometimes seem to forget what the topic was in the first place.

[racechick]

amazing how you guys sometimes seem to forget what the topic was in the first place.

Happens all the time mate..read thru all the topics

[McLaren Fan]

From pf1.com

Stewards questioned Webber over Massa move
Thursday 16th October 2008

Fresh controversy over the stewarding of the Japanese GP has been sparked by the revelation that Felipe Massa's move past Mark Webber on the penultimate lap was investigated - but only to determine if the Red Bull driver ought to be punished for allegedly forcing the World Championship contender wide.

In the process of overtaking Webber for the final points-paying position, Massa crossed the white lines along the pit-straight deemed to indicate the limits of the race track. As Massa passed the Australian, all four wheels of his Ferrari were placed in the pit-lane exit, prompting some observers, especially during these litigious times, to question whether his move illegal. By the letter of the rulebook, any driver who leaves the race-track has committed an offence that warrants a penalty.

However, far from probe Massa's manoeuvre, the stewards are instead reported to have questioned Webber over whether he resisted the Ferrari too robustly - an offence that Sebastian Bourdais was seemingly found guilty of.

'It turns out the stewards spoke to Webber about this,' reports The Times' F1 correspondent Ed Gorman in his blog. 'They were quite happy with Massa's driving at this point but were concerned about Webber "pushing Massa into the wall." There was "never any question in relation to the legality" of Massa's move. The stewards saw this as primarily a safety issue.'

As an aside, Gorman also reports that the stewards remain adamant that they were right to punish Lewis Hamilton for allegedly forcing Kimi Raikkonen off the track at the first corner of the race.

'I have the impression that the powers-that-be regard Lewis's driving in Fuji at Turn 1 as bordering on reckless and that if he had touched another car or caused an accident he would be looking at a 10-place penalty in Shanghai,' he claims.

It's unclear whether the 10-place penalty would have been imposed in addition to his drive-through penalty at Suzuka. Immediately after the race, Kimi Raikkonen accused Hamilton of hitting his Ferrari, but, after footage to the contrary materialised, he withdrew the claim. As yet, there has been no confirmation from the stewards that, they also investigated the driving of Heikki Kovalainen, who definitely did bang wheels with Raikkonen's Ferrari and was apparently guilty of forcing his fellow Finn off the track.

If this is the case then I feel Massa has very much going to win as the FIA and Stewards who are on the FIA payroll are going to make Massa win one way or another.

Absolutely shocking. The only driver in the wrong was Massa. When the FIA were screwing over McLaren and Renault back in 2006 they did it discretely, now there is just blatant favourtism in favour of Ferrari.

[scotty]

Wow, that is unbelievably shocking about Webber.

[AKR]

From pf1.com

Stewards questioned Webber over Massa move
Thursday 16th October 2008

Fresh controversy over the stewarding of the Japanese GP has been sparked by the revelation that Felipe Massa's move past Mark Webber on the penultimate lap was investigated - but only to determine if the Red Bull driver ought to be punished for allegedly forcing the World Championship contender wide.

In the process of overtaking Webber for the final points-paying position, Massa crossed the white lines along the pit-straight deemed to indicate the limits of the race track. As Massa passed the Australian, all four wheels of his Ferrari were placed in the pit-lane exit, prompting some observers, especially during these litigious times, to question whether his move illegal. By the letter of the rulebook, any driver who leaves the race-track has committed an offence that warrants a penalty.

However, far from probe Massa's manoeuvre, the stewards are instead reported to have questioned Webber over whether he resisted the Ferrari too robustly - an offence that Sebastian Bourdais was seemingly found guilty of.

'It turns out the stewards spoke to Webber about this,' reports The Times' F1 correspondent Ed Gorman in his blog. 'They were quite happy with Massa's driving at this point but were concerned about Webber "pushing Massa into the wall." There was "never any question in relation to the legality" of Massa's move. The stewards saw this as primarily a safety issue.'

As an aside, Gorman also reports that the stewards remain adamant that they were right to punish Lewis Hamilton for allegedly forcing Kimi Raikkonen off the track at the first corner of the race.

'I have the impression that the powers-that-be regard Lewis's driving in Fuji at Turn 1 as bordering on reckless and that if he had touched another car or caused an accident he would be looking at a 10-place penalty in Shanghai,' he claims.

It's unclear whether the 10-place penalty would have been imposed in addition to his drive-through penalty at Suzuka. Immediately after the race, Kimi Raikkonen accused Hamilton of hitting his Ferrari, but, after footage to the contrary materialised, he withdrew the claim. As yet, there has been no confirmation from the stewards that, they also investigated the driving of Heikki Kovalainen, who definitely did bang wheels with Raikkonen's Ferrari and was apparently guilty of forcing his fellow Finn off the track.

If this is the case then I feel Massa has very much going to win as the FIA and Stewards who are on the FIA payroll are going to make Massa win one way or another.

Its unbelievable Kiki! Can you not see this is wrong and belittles Massa and all race fans??

I never said it was right Anna? Just because I posted it and because I made a comment based on how I felt after I read it, doesn't mean I think it is right. You probably know as well that the FIA are helping Massa. But you surely don't agree with it. Same is the case with me. The only difference is that I would accept it simply because I do not want Lewis Hamilton to win. To be fair, if it were Alonso (pretend he were still at McLaren), I would prefer Alonso to win than Massa win with "Special Assistance".

[racechick]

Montoya had it right about the stewards! Another gem of Juans
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=IJJXIgnjug0

[csrracer]

Montoya had it right about the stewards! Another gem of Juans
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=IJJXIgnjug0

I would say Schumacher did exactly what Lewis did in Japan, of course with the exception that he did actually make contact. Yet no penalty. I'm sure you could probably spend weeks coming up with incidents, were Ferrari drivers were in the wrong and received no penalties, Unfortunately I think it's just another factor in F1 that all the teams , that aren't Ferrari have to contend with.