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[iPod]

I couldn't say wether or not Masa hit Hamilton intentionally or not, but he was accelerating hard considering he had no place to go, It's one thing to be involved with another car in the heat of battle but this looked to me like he deliberately hit him. F1 is not the place for that type of negligence and Masa's whole race was one incident after another.

There is good evidence either way for Massa's actions being deliberate or stupid, but, in either case, he's lucky to have got away with a drive-through penalty. It was a bit of a kop out, in my view.

Absolutely there is a 10 second stop and go penalty available for that type of behavior, and this was the perfect place for it to be enforced.

I was thinking more along the lines of Massa being disqualified from the race. If it was proven he did deliberately take out Hamilton, then he should be disqualified from the championship, just as Schumacher was in 1997.

Although though I do agree with you about the ban, id have to say that the Schumacher incident was much more obvious - where it could actually swing both ways with Massa; as in it could have just been a moment of hot headedness, trying to re-take Hamilton in one move. Not necessarily a move to purposefully take out Hamilton.

But anyways, its wayy to late for anybody to do anything about the Webber and Hamilton incidents.

Im just looking forward to next year, when we get a new FIA, and some clean, and more importantly, fair racing.






LOL.

[bud]

Give an example of when its been punished before.
As far as I can remember, there's been similar moves that have gone without punishment, simply because there was dangerous incident involved. Its always been fine to use the end of the pitlane.

I cant really comment on the Massa/Webber incident as at that stage of the race i did not see due to work commitments.

But as far as i know i dont think its illegal i know at the start of the race its ok, but the only thing im unsure of is if its in the drivers briefing whether youre not alloed to use that part of the track during the race because there may be another car exiting the pits at any time.

and we all know cars exiting the pits are not allowed to cut across that line or face a drive through.

It wasn't just the pit exit line that he crossed bud



Very dangerous IMO.

cheers for that, like i said i hadnt seen that move, hmmm that part there is technically not apart of the track...... and he used the offtrack to gain an advantage... havent we heard this before?

The investigation I would like to see would be into Masa's telemetry system on the corner were he rammed Hamilton.
He was quoted as saying "There was nothing I could do I was going to fast" . But it looked like he was practically stopped
then sped up before going over the curb and hitting Hamilton. He was also quoted as saying "Bourdais hit me from behind" when Bourdais was clearly ahead of him. I like Masa's usual cool headed and consistent driving, but I think he was off his rocker during this race.

that would be interesting, it was as plain as day him ramming Hamilton deliberately

HamMas.jpg

he learnt from the best

[csrracer]

Wow another good picture where do you get these? Sure as hell doesn't look like Massa's steering wheel is at full lock to his left,which I imagine he would be if he was trying to avoid contact, there was also a lot of space behind Hamilton to tuck in it's not like he was forced into the grass as he claimed.

[darwin dali]

The pit area looks painted the same as the curbs are, so it could be part of usable track if that paint means anything.

Re. deliberate: would that make sense considering the standing? If FM was ahead pointwise, then yes - but he's behind! He would surely have to consider the possibility that he too would be out of the race with damage to the car due to the collision.

[stonemonkey]

The pit area looks painted the same as the curbs are, so it could be part of usable track if that paint means anything.

LMAO, considering where it is do you really think that?

[McLaren Fan]

The pit area looks painted the same as the curbs are, so it could be part of usable track if that paint means anything.

Re. deliberate: would that make sense considering the standing? If FM was ahead pointwise, then yes - but he's behind! He would surely have to consider the possibility that he too would be out of the race with damage to the car due to the collision.

It is not part of the track. Even the kerbs are not part of the track. The track is defined by the white lines. Therefore, Massa went off the track to overtake Webber, and did so in a dangerous manner.

[darwin dali]

The pit area looks painted the same as the curbs are, so it could be part of usable track if that paint means anything.

Re. deliberate: would that make sense considering the standing? If FM was ahead pointwise, then yes - but he's behind! He would surely have to consider the possibility that he too would be out of the race with damage to the car due to the collision.

It is not part of the track. Even the kerbs are not part of the track. The track is defined by the white lines. Therefore, Massa went off the track to overtake Webber, and did so in a dangerous manner.

Huh? So you're saying the drivers are not allowed to use the curbs?

[bud]

The pit area looks painted the same as the curbs are, so it could be part of usable track if that paint means anything.

Re. deliberate: would that make sense considering the standing? If FM was ahead pointwise, then yes - but he's behind! He would surely have to consider the possibility that he too would be out of the race with damage to the car due to the collision.

It is not part of the track. Even the kerbs are not part of the track. The track is defined by the white lines. Therefore, Massa went off the track to overtake Webber, and did so in a dangerous manner.

Huh? So you're saying the drivers are not allowed to use the curbs?

Ok lets say its a curb, Youre still not allowed to have all 4 tyres on the curbs if youre counting it as such.

[darwin dali]

Happens all the time though and is not penalized. People go wide into the run-off area and rejoin the track later - no penalty. See, e.g., the start of the Fuji GP and other occasions during that race.

[csrracer]

The stewards made it perfectly clear to all the drivers and teams after the Spa incident, "that the racing surface was defined by the area between the painted lines." They went on to claim that any driver that gains an advantage by having all 4 wheels outside of the racing surface will need to concede the position gained until the next corner, or they will be penalized. The picture clearly shows Weber is on the racing surface and Massa is passing him with all 4 wheels off of the racing surface. If this was a curb which would be painted the same red and white pattern and all 4 wheels were outside the white line it should be penalized, just like Spa.

[csrracer]

Happens all the time though and is not penalized. People go wide into the run-off area and rejoin the track later - no penalty. See, e.g., the start of the Fuji GP and other occasions during that race.

If it happens all the time and shouldn't be penalized Why was Hamilton stripped of his win? He even gave the position back. Massa does no such thing and gets no penalty. This is the whole point of why everyone is so F%$ckin upset, (except for a few Diehard Ferrari Fanatics). Anybody who is a true F1 fan that wants to see races and championships won by Drivers not stewards will tell you the stewards are not being fair, and the only people who don't see it are the "Ferrari Fanatics".

[texasmr2]

Anybody who is a true F1 fan that wants to see races and championships won by Drivers not stewards will tell you the stewards are not being fair, and the only people who don't see it are the "Ferrari Fanatics".

We all realize the stewards are not playing fair and it is very disturbing even to Ferrari fanatics or atleast most of us here as I cant speak for other sites.

[bud]

Happens all the time though and is not penalized. People go wide into the run-off area and rejoin the track later - no penalty. See, e.g., the start of the Fuji GP and other occasions during that race.

Massa didnt go wide here, it was a premeditated part of his overtake move!
clearly Webber thought by putting his car where it was it was safe. i bet he wasnt expecting Massa to use the pit exit as road!

[McLaren Fan]

Huh? So you're saying the drivers are not allowed to use the curbs?

You must have at least the wheels of one side of your within the area defined as the track. When ramming Hamilton off the track and in overtaking Webber, Massa had all four wheels off the track.

Happens all the time though and is not penalized. People go wide into the run-off area and rejoin the track later - no penalty. See, e.g., the start of the Fuji GP and other occasions during that race.

Indeed, but you're not allowed to pass anybody or gain an advantage in doing so. Massa did and was not punished. But of course Hamilton was screwed over in Belgium, despite everything being above board.

[stonemonkey]

That painted area of the track divides parts of the track where there could be a speed differential of over 100mph between the cars on either side of it, It's there for a reason and what Massa did was just as dangerous or even more so than what the two Mclaren drivers were penalised for in Sepang.