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[darwin dali]

In the very last scene you see SB in the background from FM's on board camera and you see that there was about a car width between SB and the curb. As I said before, SB pushed to the outside trying to take the regular race line around the corner knowing full well and seeing FM had pulled up along his side (and was actually in front of him by a nose).

[racechick]

In the very last scene you see SB in the background from FM's on board camera and you see that there was about a car width between SB and the curb. As I said before, SB pushed to the outside trying to take the regular race line around the corner knowing full well and seeing FM had pulled up along his side (and was actually in front of him by a nose).

[prozac26]

On Massa-Bourdais, The video shows Massa gets ahead under braking but I think Bourdais' intentions were to keep out his way and stay at the inside with Massa being a bit eager to get back to the racing line. A racing incident and no need for a penalty IMO.

I agree. I was disappointed when they penalized Bourdais, there was nothing he could do, beside stopping in the pits and letting Massa pass.

[przemo]

This footage is pretty good, especially the on-board shots. But we're missing videos from Kimi's or Sebastien's cars. I would say racing incidents in case of Hamilton and Bourdais (with Hamilton having to let Raikkonen regain his position). I don't believe Lewis deliberately pushed Kimi off the track, but anyway it was a stupid way to pass Kimi. It looked a bit like he didn't want to let Raikkonen take the corner before him. I agree with Massa's penalty though - an avoidable accident, that move was never going to work, he tried to drive over the grass, a bit hot-headed moment there for Felipe.

[McLaren Fan]

In the very last scene you see SB in the background from FM's on board camera and you see that there was about a car width between SB and the curb. As I said before, SB pushed to the outside trying to take the regular race line around the corner knowing full well and seeing FM had pulled up along his side (and was actually in front of him by a nose).

[lcplcombat]

In the very last scene you see SB in the background from FM's on board camera and you see that there was about a car width between SB and the curb. As I said before, SB pushed to the outside trying to take the regular race line around the corner knowing full well and seeing FM had pulled up along his side (and was actually in front of him by a nose).

hahahaha

[lcplcombat]

The first incident shows categorically that Hamilton did not force Kimi off the track, he made him avoid him but it was Kovi that got in the way of Kimi.
quote from the official FIA post race press conference:

Q: (Livio Oricchio – O Estado de Sao Paulo) To all drivers: the stewards decided to give Lewis Hamilton a drive-through penalty for what happened at the start. Do you consider that was fair?
FA: I agree.
KR: I don’t know. I didn’t see the whole thing. I only saw him when he came up next to me. I’m not sure if he hit me or not but they make their decisions, so I have nothing against it.
RK: I don’t know what happened in the first corner, so it’s difficult to judge.

Massa was a little wide and and out breaked himself slightly going into the corner, he had a bit of opposite lock and couldn't turn into the corner and stay on the track, the angle he took to regain the track and the fact that he could see cars in front off him using the racing line means he was at fault in the resulting collision. He was trying to maintain his speed and the resulting loss of control made him drift into the side of Hamilton. As he is regaining the track you can see he is turning the wheel to the left, but was understeering due to lack of traction. If he had lifted he would have avoided the collision. I don't think it was deliberate but it was avoidable.

The only reasoning I can see for Bourdais being penalised is that the stewards judged that Massa was ahead of him going into the corner and Bourdais should therefore have conceded the corner. BUT the drivers were told in the pre race brief that drivers exiting the pits had right of way over cars on the track. If you look at how wide Massa was, going into the corner, there is no way that a reasonable person could expect Bourdais to be aware of his pressence until it was too late. Bourdais was on the inside, on the racing line. Massa at fault, no drive through penalty for avoidable accident for Massa because Bourdais wasnt impeded but ridiculous that Bourdais was penalised.

The stewards should publish their reasoning for these penalties, not just announce which rule has been breached, it would save a lot of bitching. Its interesting that the clip is entitled "Japanese Grand Prix footage - what do you think?" but they don't give an opportunity for us to respond

[cap-dude]

Well its more than clear that everyone here is bais. I thinks fair to say. Actually no. Everyone is definitely just standing up for the driver they support.

To me the first incident was more, gaining an unfair advantage from Lewis, along with dangerous driving. The only reason he didn't hit anyone was because Kimi took avoiding action. If Kimi took the corner normally, then there would have been a crash. So to me, thats where the punishment came from.

Massa's incident, he seemed to brake, then I don't know. Either lost the rear end and went on, or maybe tried to avoid the Toyota. Either way, he went wide, and the next thing, Hamilton was there, and he had very little time to react. But you can see he did at least try to avoid the inncident, but it remains that he hit him, and the penalty was clear enough.

The Bourdais incident, I think was more of a racing incident. I mean, how many times has Coulthard done the same thing this year. I also think that visibility was taken in to account this time.

But at the end of the day, the decisions are final whether we agree or not.

[McLaren Fan]

Well its more than clear that everyone here is bais. I thinks fair to say. Actually no. Everyone is definitely just standing up for the driver they support.

It's funny you should say that.

[csrracer]

To me the first incident was more, gaining an unfair advantage from Lewis, along with dangerous driving. The only reason he didn't hit anyone was because Kimi took avoiding action. If Kimi took the corner normally, then there would have been a crash. So to me, thats where the punishment came from.

Massa's incident, he seemed to brake, then I don't know. Either lost the rear end and went on, or maybe tried to avoid the Toyota. Either way, he went wide, and the next thing, Hamilton was there, and he had very little time to react. But you can see he did at least try to avoid the inncident, but it remains that he hit him, and the penalty was clear enough.

The first incident with Hamilton happens time and time again at the start of races, yet there aren't usually penalties handed out to everyone that goes into turn one too hot. It shouldn't make a difference wether you are mid pack or out front everyone is fighting for position. He caused no accidents he hit no one.

Massa hitting Hamilton:in all the footage I've seen Massa is clearly behind Hamilton, it also shows the rear of Massa's car losing traction,after he had turned in and was pointed in the rite direction, meaning he was hard on the throttle. Where did he think he was going? There is clearly no room for his car between the curb and Hamilton. The only thing that could have happened with him that hard on the throttle was that he was going to hit Hamilton. This sort of behavior in the past was penalized with a race suspension.

[KyrosV]

I dunno, the way Hamilton suggests he took the corner 'Normally' kind of suggests he knew very well he was closing off massa and looking for him to hit his car..

[Gaz]

I dunno, the way Hamilton suggests he took the corner 'Normally' kind of suggests he knew very well he was closing off massa and looking for him to hit his car..

LOL? he wanted massa to hit him look at the reply ham takes the corner normal massa messes it up gets taken then panic's and rams Hamilton trying to get it back.

[csrracer]

I dunno, the way Hamilton suggests he took the corner 'Normally' kind of suggests he knew very well he was closing off massa and looking for him to hit his car..

Sorry I don't think that makes any sense whatsoever, are you saying the drivers are now supposed to leave room for the cars behind them to get past? Massa made a mistake Hamilton took advantage of that mistake and passed him. Massa responded by accelerating into Hamilton's car ruining his race. That deserves more than a drive through penalty.

[billindenver]

Massa's move was not right, he did it intentionally. As intentionally as Hamilton's moves are when he pushes other drivers around. The difference being when hamilton swerves at someone, they typically move...this time Massa got pushy and Hamilton didn't give. Had Kimi taken the same stance on turn one that hamilton took on this turn, Hamilton would have run into Kimi. The difference of course is that Kimi really wanted to finish the race so he avoided the collision. Hamilton's poor decision to push the issue put him at the back....once again, a driver not thinking like a WDC.

There are enough youtube videos of hamilton shoving drivers off into the grass on straights etc, that someone doing the same to him is pretty much a non-issue. I think there will be more of this in the last couple of races, since Hamilton has made some enemies where he really didn't need to. There are drivers complaining about him that are in cars nowhere near capable of competing with him. For him to have made enemies at the back of the grid already....is impressive, in a Max Mosely kind of wya. I would not be surprised at all to see Hamilton walking to the pits before this season ends, his car in a smoking pile with a williams or a toyota on top of it.

You reap...what you sew

[Rivelution]

Massa's move was not right, he did it intentionally. As intentionally as Hamilton's moves are when he pushes other drivers around. The difference being when hamilton swerves at someone, they typically move...this time Massa got pushy and Hamilton didn't give. Had Kimi taken the same stance on turn one that hamilton took on this turn, Hamilton would have run into Kimi. There are plenty of youtube videos of hamilton shoving drivers off into the grass on straights etc, that someone doing the same to him is pretty much a non-issue. I think there will be more of this in the last couple of races, since Hamilton has made some enemies where he really didn't need to. I would not be surprised at all to see Hamilton walking to the pits before this season ends.

You reap...what you sew

What do you think of the Bourdais/Massa incident?