FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[EwanM]

Shorten the races?? What a ridiculous idea!! I bet someone got that idea last year when he grumbled about wanting a sprint race.

But I'm all for banning of refuelling, make the drivers really earn their money planning on when to push, when to ease off in order for them to not run out of fuel in the closing laps. I'd love to see a finish like the 1985 San Marino GP when almost everyone was running out of fuel in the final laps including Senna, Stefan Johansson whilst leading infront of the tifosi, Prost being underweight and getting DQ'd and Thierry Boutsen's car stopping just short of the line but pushing it across so he can claim a podium.

Or of course Mansell's infamous faint

[7UpJordan]

Shorten the races?? What a ridiculous idea!! I bet someone got that idea last year when he grumbled about wanting a sprint race.

But I'm all for banning of refuelling, make the drivers really earn their money planning on when to push, when to ease off in order for them to not run out of fuel in the closing laps. I'd love to see a finish like the 1985 San Marino GP when almost everyone was running out of fuel in the final laps including Senna, Stefan Johansson whilst leading infront of the tifosi, Prost being underweight and getting DQ'd and Thierry Boutsen's car stopping just short of the line but pushing it across so he can claim a podium.

Or of course Mansell's infamous faint

In the sweltering heat at Dallas, now that was quite courageous. Would any driver from today try that?

[EwanM]

Shorten the races?? What a ridiculous idea!! I bet someone got that idea last year when he grumbled about wanting a sprint race.

But I'm all for banning of refuelling, make the drivers really earn their money planning on when to push, when to ease off in order for them to not run out of fuel in the closing laps. I'd love to see a finish like the 1985 San Marino GP when almost everyone was running out of fuel in the final laps including Senna, Stefan Johansson whilst leading infront of the tifosi, Prost being underweight and getting DQ'd and Thierry Boutsen's car stopping just short of the line but pushing it across so he can claim a podium.

Or of course Mansell's infamous faint

In the sweltering heat at Dallas, now that was quite courageous. Would any driver from today try that?

Lewis would do it and get penalised for unfair advantage.

[liquidmetal]

what next? a 1 lap dash for every1, and whosoever has the fastest lap, wins? will save money, pitstops, fuel, blaha blah ..... i support saving fuel, possibly even no pitstops, but shorter races? no way

[Rivelution]

Shorten the races?? What a ridiculous idea!! I bet someone got that idea last year when he grumbled about wanting a sprint race.

But I'm all for banning of refuelling, make the drivers really earn their money planning on when to push, when to ease off in order for them to not run out of fuel in the closing laps. I'd love to see a finish like the 1985 San Marino GP when almost everyone was running out of fuel in the final laps including Senna, Stefan Johansson whilst leading infront of the tifosi, Prost being underweight and getting DQ'd and Thierry Boutsen's car stopping just short of the line but pushing it across so he can claim a podium.

Or like the '82 Monaco GP where people were running out of gas in the closing stages as well.

[darwin dali]

Why are they coming up with these really stupid ideas? There are surely better ways than this? The whole single engine thing, and now this? Seriously, one of the most exciting parts of the Grand Prix is the pit stops. I love seeing a good strategy unfold.

The FIA are majorly starting to destroy this sport. I just hope that the teams completely disregard these ideas, and come up with some better ones.

FOTA is NOT the FIA - it's actually the teams who came up with these ideas!

[darwin dali]

Major problem with shortening the races: TV ads!!! TV stations would still need to earn ad money, so we'd get 3 minutes of action followed by 4 minutes of ads - horrible!

[woody2goody]

Shorter races would take away the prestige of winning one. Unless you ran a half distance race on Saturday after qualifying or something like that. But the Sunday race would still be full length.

I think there should be a point for pole position. That would make qualifying more interesting but I believe the whole show is as interesting as it's been since the late 90's.

[darwin dali]

Shorter races would take away the prestige of winning one. Unless you ran a half distance race on Saturday after qualifying or something like that. But the Sunday race would still be full length.

I think there should be a point for pole position. That would make qualifying more interesting but I believe the whole show is as interesting as it's been since the late 90's.

I don't see that a point for pole would make quali more interesting - it's not as if the drivers hedge their bets during q3; they actually race each other as hard as they can, so what more do you want?
A point for fastest lap during the race however, might spice things up a bit, especially towards the end of every stint incl. towards the end of the race, where these days most drivers settle for their position and baby their car home.

[przemo]

I wonder what those "competitive elements" will be. Maybe a short sprint for 1 mln $? Cash prizes instead of points could also work for the drivers and fans would have an entertainment.

Major problem with shortening the races: TV ads!!! TV stations would still need to earn ad money, so we'd get 3 minutes of action followed by 4 minutes of ads - horrible!

Not every TV station broadcasts ads during the race. In Poland we have ad-free F1 races (which is a blessing really; I watch MotoGP on Eurosport and I'm always angry whenever they're showing ads).

I don't see that a point for pole would make quali more interesting - it's not as if the drivers hedge their bets during q3; they actually race each other as hard as they can, so what more do you want?
A point for fastest lap during the race however, might spice things up a bit, especially towards the end of every stint incl. towards the end of the race, where these days most drivers settle for their position and baby their car home.

Kimi Raikkonen would probably agree with you, because he set 9 or 10 fastest laps this season.

[Martin]

I like the refuelling part of the race, its makes for interesting startegies which do affect the outcome. However, someone does need to design a more efficient fuel rig which does not get stuck on such a regular basis.
To reduce costs I would suggest - limited testing, engine / trans to last 4 races or take a 10 place grid drop, limit the number / size of support vehicles (reduce size etc of the motorhomes in other words, which are like mobile five star hotels now,) disallow telemetry corrections on the car whilst in motion, except by driver, have only one type of tyre per race for all teams (+ inters and wet of course), have only 1 pre race practice day at the race circuit. Limit the number of support staff, Limit the amount of fuel available to teams (more efficient lower cost engines - for 4 races). Restrict Bernie's fees to circuits etc. Limit, but not ban, development costs / time. For example - only 2 engine mods per season, 2 aero mods, 2 chassis mods etc. At present some teams change these things almost every race and develop aero & chassis packages to suit some circuits.
Allow a version of customer cars, = income for supplier, low cost for new team.

[scotty]

I have been thinking about this and i wouldn't mind a refuelling ban, but i would seriously hate shorter races; surely F1 has to maintain some sort of tradition? It'd also be interesting if they banned the fuel mixture controls alongside the refuelling, then the drivers would have to drive conservatively if fuel is tight, a pretty big test of skill in itself!

[przemo]

After the first discussions:

Qualifying point on agenda for 2009

By Jonathan Noble Friday, October 17th 2008, 05:36 GMT

Formula One could begin awarding a world championship point for the fastest time in second qualifying and move to three-race engines next year if radical proposals put forward to team principals for consideration are ratified, autosport.com has learned.

A series of discussions have taken place in China this weekend in the working groups of the Formula One Teams' Association (FOTA) to consider how the sport could be made better.

And although these discussions are only the first stage in the lengthy process of trying to create new rules, there already appears to be some consensus about which ideas will be taken forward to FOTA's executive committee.

The proposals will need approval from the committee, which is comprised of team principals, before they are then put forward to the FIA for final sign-off.

It is understood that one of the most radical ideas that has met with support at the working group stage is for a world championship point to be awarded to the quickest driver in Q2.

Several other major championships, including GP2, give points for pole positions but the idea has never been adopted by F1 up until now. The only time the F1 world championship has offered points beyond race finishes was from 1950 to 1959 when a single point was offered for fastest lap.

Sources have also revealed that there has been support for a move to three-race engines, which will help brings the costs down for car manufacturers as well as making drivetrain deals cheaper for independent teams.

Teams are also close to agreeing on a further reduction in testing - down from the current 30,000 kilometre limit to 20,000 kilometres. Teams will be allowed four separate days for inexperienced drivers.

During the season teams will only be allowed to bring one car to each test, although in pre-season testing teams will still be allowed to run two cars.

Moves are also being made to improve the show for both television spectators and those at the track. Drivers could be required to attend special autograph sessions that take place in the pit lane on Fridays, while a special television 'sin bin' may be set up where drivers and team members will be required to attend following their exclusion from qualifying or their retirement from the race.

Further talks in the working groups are also scheduled to take place on whether or not fuel loads on cars are released to the general public, either on the Fridays of events or post-qualifying – to help make the sport easier to understand.

Discussions are also to continue on the idea of reducing the length of races down to 250 kilometres, or a maximum time of 90 minutes.

Although the current focus is on making changes for next year, teams have agreed that it would be better for them to conduct proper market research to better understand what the public wants and what will help make the sport more popular in the longer term.

The teams have decided against introducing a ban on refuelling.

linky

[Rick_1138]

We must remember that not that long ago, pit stops\refueling was introduced as a way to make the races more exciting, as it put an element of strategy into the races.

The problem is its become far to honed and now the strategy has become so similar for each team it kind of takes away the original point.

It used to be F1 cars got a new set of boots and a tak topped to the brim and the team manager gave the guys helmet a tap and told GO! They came back to the garage if they dropped out, or won!

We are starting to go back this way, with less aero aids, less electronics etc, but a ban on refueling could be a good idea, especially if the can tie it up to the KERS development, where the system will eventually offar a lomner power surge over the race and fuel tamk range will be increased.

It would not be that hard for F1 teams to develop a longer running car, as the cars of the early 90's\late 80's did the same distance on one tank of gas.

The main issue is cars only used to rev to 13-15k now its 18-19k the difference in fuel consumption at those revs is staggering.

If they want to be fuel economical (as they keep blaring on about) lowering revs and lenghtening gear ratios would go a long way to bringin back overtaking, and mix up strategies for the next 10 years again , just as pit stops did 15 years ago.

[McLaren Fan]

After the first discussions:

Qualifying point on agenda for 2009

By Jonathan Noble Friday, October 17th 2008, 05:36 GMT

Formula One could begin awarding a world championship point for the fastest time in second qualifying and move to three-race engines next year if radical proposals put forward to team principals for consideration are ratified, autosport.com has learned.

A series of discussions have taken place in China this weekend in the working groups of the Formula One Teams' Association (FOTA) to consider how the sport could be made better.

And although these discussions are only the first stage in the lengthy process of trying to create new rules, there already appears to be some consensus about which ideas will be taken forward to FOTA's executive committee.

The proposals will need approval from the committee, which is comprised of team principals, before they are then put forward to the FIA for final sign-off.

It is understood that one of the most radical ideas that has met with support at the working group stage is for a world championship point to be awarded to the quickest driver in Q2.

Several other major championships, including GP2, give points for pole positions but the idea has never been adopted by F1 up until now. The only time the F1 world championship has offered points beyond race finishes was from 1950 to 1959 when a single point was offered for fastest lap.

Sources have also revealed that there has been support for a move to three-race engines, which will help brings the costs down for car manufacturers as well as making drivetrain deals cheaper for independent teams.

Teams are also close to agreeing on a further reduction in testing - down from the current 30,000 kilometre limit to 20,000 kilometres. Teams will be allowed four separate days for inexperienced drivers.

During the season teams will only be allowed to bring one car to each test, although in pre-season testing teams will still be allowed to run two cars.

Moves are also being made to improve the show for both television spectators and those at the track. Drivers could be required to attend special autograph sessions that take place in the pit lane on Fridays, while a special television 'sin bin' may be set up where drivers and team members will be required to attend following their exclusion from qualifying or their retirement from the race.

Further talks in the working groups are also scheduled to take place on whether or not fuel loads on cars are released to the general public, either on the Fridays of events or post-qualifying – to help make the sport easier to understand.

Discussions are also to continue on the idea of reducing the length of races down to 250 kilometres, or a maximum time of 90 minutes.

Although the current focus is on making changes for next year, teams have agreed that it would be better for them to conduct proper market research to better understand what the public wants and what will help make the sport more popular in the longer term.

The teams have decided against introducing a ban on refuelling.

linky

I like the sound of extending the life of engines etc. for longer. This would definitely decrease costs and challenge the engineers. With other measures along these lines there is no reason why we should ever have to have standardised parts in Formula One. I also think that giving out one point for pole position could be interesting. Okay, pole position does not mean you are the fastest driver necessarily nowadays, but it does have an impact on race strategy. A team would have to weigh up the pros and cons of how much the prioritise qualifying and the race itself. I don't like the idea of telling viewers how much fuel the drivers have on board. That will remove one of the unknown things that help to make races exciting. Further, it's not tricky to understand. What really needs to happen is for more timing information etc. to be made available to viewers. What I would like to see full live-timing screens etc.