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[EwanM]

Insert that Right Said Fred Song.

[darwin dali]

Massa had loads of track and he squeezed Bourdais and left him nowhere. It was not neccessary and Massa only got that extra point when Max intervened. I told you earlier DD why tbey couldnt rule on it during the race and it turned out I was exactly right! They didnt like the result so they changed it.

- illegitimately prevented a legitimate overtaking manoeuvre by a driver ;
- illegitimately impeded another driver during overtaking.
Unless it was completely clear that a driver was in breach of any of the above, any incidents involving more than one car will normally be investigated after the race.

[bud]

the term Mate is thrown around by the Aussies and Brits and it has two meanings and its only the tone that differentiates them

i think that "Mate" was the unfriendly pub fight version DD

[darwin dali]

the term Mate is thrown around by the Aussies and Brits and it has two meanings and its only the tone that differentiates them

i think that "Mate" was the unfriendly pub fight version DD

Yeah well. If he keeps up his attitude, he'll find himself in a very unfriendly environment soon enough

[racechick]

Massa had loads of track and he squeezed Bourdais and left him nowhere. It was not neccessary and Massa only got that extra point when Max intervened. I told you earlier DD why tbey couldnt rule on it during the race and it turned out I was exactly right! They didnt like the result so they changed it.

- illegitimately prevented a legitimate overtaking manoeuvre by a driver ;
- illegitimately impeded another driver during overtaking.
Unless it was completely clear that a driver was in breach of any of the above, any incidents involving more than one car will normally be investigated after the race.

Ok so you've dug up that rule which they seem to apply willy nilly to suit their needs. But the point remains MASSA WAS THE AGRESSOR HERE!!! I cannot believe you are so infatuated by Fillipe that you are arguing this!! They screwed Bourdais to give Massa a point and it was done when the FIA had a chance to intervene

[darwin dali]

I cannot believe you are so infatuated by Fillipe that you are arguing this!! They screwed Bourdais to give Massa a point and it was done when the FIA had a chance to intervene

This coming from a Mr. Chubby groupie who denies he has man titties is a bit rich

[racechick]

I cannot believe you are so infatuated by Fillipe that you are arguing this!! They screwed Bourdais to give Massa a point and it was done when the FIA had a chance to intervene

This coming from a Mr. Chubby groupie who denies he has man titties is a bit rich

Yes well thats beside the point here! He hasnt just cheated someone out of points and grabbed a freebie for himself. And Juan hasnt got man titties!! Felipe is weedy!!!

[bud]

Felipe is weedy!!!

thats a cool nickname for him

[darwin dali]

I cannot believe you are so infatuated by Fillipe that you are arguing this!! They screwed Bourdais to give Massa a point and it was done when the FIA had a chance to intervene

This coming from a Mr. Chubby groupie who denies he has man titties is a bit rich

Yes well thats beside the point here! He hasnt just cheated someone out of points and grabbed a freebie for himself. And Juan hasnt got man titties!! Felipe is weedy!!!

Uh so hasn't FM. It was the stewards, so don't blame him. That's what is being discussed in another thread: how you McLaren/LH supporters in Britain make a villain out of one of the most decent guys in F1.

[darwin dali]

Felipe is weedy!!!

thats a cool nickname for him

Ooh, I'd love to smoke him

[bud]

Felipe is weedy!!!

thats a cool nickname for him

Ooh, I'd love to smoke him

damn you "Massa heads" smoking all the time

[darwin dali]

Felipe is weedy!!!

thats a cool nickname for him

Ooh, I'd love to smoke him

damn you "Massa heads" smoking all the time

[racechick]

I cannot believe you are so infatuated by Fillipe that you are arguing this!! They screwed Bourdais to give Massa a point and it was done when the FIA had a chance to intervene

This coming from a Mr. Chubby groupie who denies he has man titties is a bit rich

Yes well thats beside the point here! He hasnt just cheated someone out of points and grabbed a freebie for himself. And Juan hasnt got man titties!! Felipe is weedy!!!

Uh so hasn't FM. It was the stewards, so don't blame him. That's what is being discussed in another thread: how you McLaren/LH supporters in Britain make a villain out of one of the most decent guys in F1.

Whats being in Britain got to do with anything??
Ive always like Felippe and i know its the FIA but he damn well knows he didnt deserve Spa and he knows he smashed into Bourdais. He knows he has the FIA fighting for him but he takes it anyway. No honour so i lose a little respect for him

[darwin dali]

I cannot believe you are so infatuated by Fillipe that you are arguing this!! They screwed Bourdais to give Massa a point and it was done when the FIA had a chance to intervene

This coming from a Mr. Chubby groupie who denies he has man titties is a bit rich

Yes well thats beside the point here! He hasnt just cheated someone out of points and grabbed a freebie for himself. And Juan hasnt got man titties!! Felipe is weedy!!!

Uh so hasn't FM. It was the stewards, so don't blame him. That's what is being discussed in another thread: how you McLaren/LH supporters in Britain make a villain out of one of the most decent guys in F1.

Whats being in Britain got to do with anything??
Ive always like Felippe and i know its the FIA but he damn well knows he didnt deserve Spa and he knows he smashed into Bourdais. He knows he has the FIA fighting for him but he takes it anyway. No honour so i lose a little respect for him

I dunno - just check out the thread about it where they talk about the British press...

Maybe he's got a different viewpoint from you (and other McLaren fans) because he was right in the middle of it and actually saw what happened?

[bud]

Bordais saw what happened from a pretty good viewpoint as well

as for Felipe being a decent guy.... i wouldnt know ive never met him but he is a decent sportsman.... i dont think so, he has no quams receiving points post race infact he sees nothing wrong with it!

MASSA: HAMILTON AND BOURDAIS WERE TO BLAME
Sunday 12th October 2008


Felipe Massa has denied any wrongdoing in the Japanese GP - and blamed both Sebastien Bourdais and Lewis Hamilton for the two controversial collisions he was involved with.

The Ferrari driver, who cut across the chicane to ram the side of Hamilton's McLaren after being overtaken, was given a drive-through penalty for the second-lap incident, but escaped any punishment for his involvement in the collision with Bourdais. Instead, the Frenchman was handed a retrospective penalty, which in turn promoted Massa to seventh place and cut Hamilton's lead to the Brazilian in the World Championship standings to just five points.

Incredibly, despite the weight of evidence against him, Massa insisted that he was not to blame for colliding with Hamilton.

"It was a racing incident," he said. "I was a little bit wide at the corner and he put the car inside while I was outside.

"Then he pushed me a little bit close to the gravel and then I put two wheels on the gravel and he closed in and we touched.

"I was already on the gravel so I couldn't do anything and we touched."

Asked if he felt the stewards were right to punish both himself and Hamilton, Massa replied: "For him yes, for me I am not sure. I had two wheels on the gravel. I could not stop the car and I was on the gravel because he pushed me into the gravel."

The Brazilian also denied any wrongdoing in the incident with Bourdais and instead pointed the finger of blame squarely at the luckless Toro Rosso driver.

"I was turning in the corner and then he hit me coming out of the pits. There is nothing to comment on. For me, he was a little bit too optimistic on the inside and to me it was completely wrong."

In an extraordinary heated exchange with Autosport's Jonathan Noble, Massa then suggested the journalist's viewpoint had been blinded by patriotism when he was asked about his engineers celebrating wildly in the Ferrari garage when Hamilton was shunted into a spin.

"Are you English? Is that your point of view?" he retorted.

After an undeterred Noble pressed him for an answer, Massa commented: "Any time you see a Ferrari ahead of a McLaren, it is a good thing for the team. I am not going to rise to put fire on the gravel. I have a good relationship with Lewis, and I will not do something to destroy something by purpose. That is true."

how Noble of Massa
here is the interview

Q & A with Felipe Massa

By Jonathan Noble Sunday, October 12th 2008, 09:35 GMT

Felipe Massa closed the gap to Lewis Hamilton in the world championship to five points in Japan, but not in the style that he would have wished for. A controversial first corner, a collision with his McLaren rival and then a tangle with Sebastien Bourdais meant things were far from straightforward for the Brazilian.

Autosport.com was there when Massa spoke to the world's media after the race in the Fuji paddock.

Q. Have you had a more-incident filled race than that?

Felipe Massa: Yes, but not in Formula One. It was quite hard and a very difficult race. At the end of the day we managed to score points after a very difficult race, having driven through a lot of problems being pushed out, and then [an incident with Sebastien] Bourdais as well. We showed our incredible pace from the middle to the end of the race and we recovered some positions, some points, and that for sure was quite important.

Q. Can you explain more about the incident with Lewis Hamilton?

FM: I did the corner, Turn 10. He braked very late and I braked very late, and then I was a little bit wide in the first part of the corner. Then he had my inside line and pushed me a little bit wide in the gravel, and then I went with the wheels on the gravel but the next corner was on the left. Then we just touched each other, so in my opinion it was a racing incident. But we had a drivethrough and we paid, and it is a bit difficult to speak after the race when we have already had the drive through.

Q. Lewis says you hit him.

FM: That is what he thinks. But he also lost positions at the start and he tried to brake when everyone was turning for the corner.

Q. What about the Sebastien Bourdais incident?

FM: There is not really much to say about that. I was turning in the corner and then he hit me coming out of the pits. There is nothing to comment on. For me, he was a little bit too optimistic on the inside and to me it was completely wrong.

Q. Were the drive through penalties for you and Lewis fair?

FM: For him yes, for me I am not sure. For me it was just a racing incident, because we braked very late into Turn 10. He tried to pass me and then I was a little bit wide in Turn 10 and he put the car on the inside, and I was on the outside. Then he pushed me a little bit close to the gravel. I put two wheels on the gravel, he closed the door and then we touched. The next corner was already in my favour, but because I was on the gravel I could not do anything and we touched. That is it.

Q. Then it was your fightback through the field and the Bourdais incident. What about that?

FM: For me that was a little bit too optimistic. You cannot leave the pits like that. I am doing the corner. Anyway, he just braked too late and he pushed me out on the track.

For me there is not too much to comment to be honest.

Q. And what about Mark Webber?

FM: Webber to me was not such a big problem to be honest.

Q. You finished in the points today. What does that mean for your championship?

FM: It could have, for sure, been better. But it could also have been worse looking at where we started and where Lewis started. But we cannot leave here saying it was a disaster. It could have been better in terms of points but we at least finished in front, scored two points and that can be important going into the final two races.

Q. What will your approach to the next race be?

FM: Not so different. We race, we know we have a good car, we try to be at the front and we fight.

Q. Lewis has told us that he thinks you drove into him deliberately after realising you had lost the position to him. What do you say about that?

FM: For sure not. I had two wheels on the gravel. I could not stop the car and I was on the gravel because he pushed me into the gravel.

Q. Do you think that is the way he sees it?

FM: No. I don't believe that.

Q. Was it right for your teammates in the pit garage to be celebrating when you crashed into a rival?

FM: Are you English? Is that your point of view?

Q. Yes, but is it right that people celebrate when people crash?

FM: Any time you see a Ferrari ahead of a McLaren, it is a good thing for the team. I am not going to rise (to your attempt) to put fire on the gravel. I have a good relationship with Lewis, and I will not do something to destroy something by purpose. That is true.

Q. I am not stirring things up

FM: I know, and I answered already.

Q. Does what happened today change your relationship with Lewis?

FM: Definitely not.

Q. Mark Webber pushed you quite close to the wall. Was that okay?

FM: It was a little bit tight, but I managed to pass him. Sometimes you need to take risks. One point for me was very important at that moment.

Q. What about what happened at the first corner?

FM: On the start, he made a bad start and Kimi passed him. Then he tried to brake completely when everybody was in the corner. He pushed to a much wider line and Kovalainen was on a wider line as well, so it was a big casino over there. For me that was a little bit too optimistic especially if you are thinking about the championship.