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User avatar
By McLaren Fan
#71264
How can possibly give Massa the benefit of the doubt? The Spa incident set a precedent on matters such as this: Massa left the track when he had no need to. He could have backed off the throttle or applied the brakes. What would have happened had there been a wall or something at the corner? Massa would definitely have had to back off.

:shrug:
By formula1fan1
#71273
How can possibly give Massa the benefit of the doubt? The Spa incident set a precedent on matters such as this: Massa left the track when he had no need to. He could have backed off the throttle or applied the brakes. What would have happened had there been a wall or something at the corner? Massa would definitely have had to back off.

:shrug:


I looked at the video again, and you're right. Hamilton not only gave Massa plenty of room, he had also completely passed Massa already at the left-turn corner. The only way Massa got back next to Hamilton was by going off-track with all four wheels (not even a single wheel on tarmac) and getting an angle into him.

Quite sad actually.

Thanks for clarifying that McLaren Fan.
User avatar
By racechick
#71290
Only just found out Bourdais got penalised for the massa tangle :yikes: WHAT! :yikes: where was he supposed to go, he was leaving the pits! Massa overtook in a dangerous place and Bourdais gts the penalty.

And I hear no mention of the time Massa used the pitlane to take Webber. So i guess thats ok too. :rolleyes:

I think F1 is over policed and regulated but more than that it is SOOO one sided!
Last race Alonso left the track at the first corner and gained places which he didnt give back and no whisper of an investigation.
User avatar
By Hanwombat
#71292
Yup, Massa f***ing messes up and Bourdais gets the penalty, No justice whatsoever!
Massa makes a risky overtake, and no investigation

HMMM MEH
By al4x
#71299
Only just found out Bourdais got penalised for the massa tangle :yikes: WHAT! :yikes: where was he supposed to go, he was leaving the pits! Massa overtook in a dangerous place and Bourdais gts the penalty.

And I hear no mention of the time Massa used the pitlane to take Webber. So i guess thats ok too. :rolleyes:

I think F1 is over policed and regulated but more than that it is SOOO one sided!
Last race Alonso left the track at the first corner and gained places which he didnt give back and no whisper of an investigation.


i saw that and was worried myself!
User avatar
By Denthúl
#71468
How can possibly give Massa the benefit of the doubt? The Spa incident set a precedent on matters such as this: Massa left the track when he had no need to. He could have backed off the throttle or applied the brakes. What would have happened had there been a wall or something at the corner? Massa would definitely have had to back off.

:shrug:


His options were:

- Do what he did.
- Carry on going, thus cutting the chicane, and risk getting a penalty.
- Slow down and try to take the corner properly, probably causing an accident with Raikkonen who was quite close when Massa started to turn in.
- Stop and wait for all the cars to go past, losing a lot of positions in the process.

I do not doubt that hitting Lewis was not a deliberate act from Massa. He simply chose the option that would likely lose him the least places and the least time and, unfortunately, couldn't quite manage to keep his car away from Lewis'.
User avatar
By 7UpJordan
#71472
Only just found out Bourdais got penalised for the massa tangle :yikes: WHAT! :yikes: where was he supposed to go, he was leaving the pits! Massa overtook in a dangerous place and Bourdais gts the penalty.

And I hear no mention of the time Massa used the pitlane to take Webber. So i guess thats ok too. :rolleyes:

I think F1 is over policed and regulated but more than that it is SOOO one sided!
Last race Alonso left the track at the first corner and gained places which he didnt give back and no whisper of an investigation.

I'm surprised they didn't penalise Webber for almost pushing Massa into the pit wall, reminded me of when Prost overtook Senna at Estoril 20 years ago and Senna almost pushed Prost into the pit wall then.
By Brazzy23
#71491
in 10 or 20 years time it wont matter what is in your mind because when people read the stats of history all it will say who the winner was. :D


Felching snowballing *censored*.

Ferrari suck balls. Kubica for the title!
User avatar
By McLaren Fan
#71495
His options were:

- Do what he did.
- Carry on going, thus cutting the chicane, and risk getting a penalty.
- Slow down and try to take the corner properly, probably causing an accident with Raikkonen who was quite close when Massa started to turn in.
- Stop and wait for all the cars to go past, losing a lot of positions in the process.

I do not doubt that hitting Lewis was not a deliberate act from Massa. He simply chose the option that would likely lose him the least places and the least time and, unfortunately, couldn't quite manage to keep his car away from Lewis'.

Piffle.
User avatar
By Denthúl
#71505
His options were:

- Do what he did.
- Carry on going, thus cutting the chicane, and risk getting a penalty.
- Slow down and try to take the corner properly, probably causing an accident with Raikkonen who was quite close when Massa started to turn in.
- Stop and wait for all the cars to go past, losing a lot of positions in the process.

I do not doubt that hitting Lewis was not a deliberate act from Massa. He simply chose the option that would likely lose him the least places and the least time and, unfortunately, couldn't quite manage to keep his car away from Lewis'.

Piffle.


Oh, of course. Because Massa is now the new "villain" of Formula 1 (at least according to the majority of McLaren and Hamilton fans I encounter in my day-to-day business), it is absolutely inconceivable that he simply caughy him by accident. My mistake... :rolleyes:

Look. He took the option that he thought would cost him the least, just as Hamilton did in Spa. Hamilton could have backed off and gone around the corner properly there, but he didn't. Or is it completely different because he's driving a silver car and can, so I'm told, do little wrong?

If you seriously think that Massa deliberately tried to take Hamilton out of the race, perhaps I respect you far more than I should.
User avatar
By przemo
#71517
I think it was similar to Felipe's overtaking move he made at Monza (overtaking Heidfeld IIRC), where he had two wheels on the grass, but still was successful. Only this time this kind of move didn't work. I think he was too optimistic with this, but seriously doubt he deliberately wanted to run into Lewis.
User avatar
By McLaren Fan
#71518
Oh, of course. Because Massa is now the new "villain" of Formula 1 (at least according to the majority of McLaren and Hamilton fans I encounter in my day-to-day business), it is absolutely inconceivable that he simply caughy him by accident. My mistake... :rolleyes:

Look. He took the option that he thought would cost him the least, just as Hamilton did in Spa. Hamilton could have backed off and gone around the corner properly there, but he didn't. Or is it completely different because he's driving a silver car and can, so I'm told, do little wrong?

If you seriously think that Massa deliberately tried to take Hamilton out of the race, perhaps I respect you far more than I should.

The situation was closer today that what it was in Belgium. There, Hamilton was caught out by Raikkonen braking so early, had to swerve to avoid him, was slightly ahead of him going into the corner and was close to Raikkonen, who give him no room to stay on the circuit anyway. Today, however, Massa completely out-braked himself while being ahead of Hamilton, was well and truly of the racing line and was sufficiently far away from Hamilton and ahead of Massa in dry conditions to negotiate the corner without using the run-off area. Having watched the incident several times now, perhaps Massa was not trying to shunt Hamilton off the circuit, but he was certainly trying to slip up beside him to gain an advantage - something which he himself criticised Hamilton for supposedly doing at Spa. Deliberate? Unlikely - I take back what I said in this regard - but that was one of the most stupid pieces of driving I've seen this season - and there has been a lot of gaffes. To be honest, I can't recall a championship where the contenders made so many stupid mistakes.
By Gaz
#71519
His options were:

- Do what he did.
- Carry on going, thus cutting the chicane, and risk getting a penalty.
- Slow down and try to take the corner properly, probably causing an accident with Raikkonen who was quite close when Massa started to turn in.
- Stop and wait for all the cars to go past, losing a lot of positions in the process.

I do not doubt that hitting Lewis was not a deliberate act from Massa. He simply chose the option that would likely lose him the least places and the least time and, unfortunately, couldn't quite manage to keep his car away from Lewis'.

Piffle.


Oh, of course. Because Massa is now the new "villain" of Formula 1 (at least according to the majority of McLaren and Hamilton fans I encounter in my day-to-day business), it is absolutely inconceivable that he simply caughy him by accident. My mistake... :rolleyes:

Look. He took the option that he thought would cost him the least, just as Hamilton did in Spa. Hamilton could have backed off and gone around the corner properly there, but he didn't. Or is it completely different because he's driving a silver car and can, so I'm told, do little wrong?

If you seriously think that Massa deliberately tried to take Hamilton out of the race, perhaps I respect you far more than I should.


I don't think Massa did it deliberately but he came of far too well from what ensued.

He at least should of had a 10 sec stop then go and for his actions against seb he should of recived a 25 sec grind penalty.
User avatar
By Denthúl
#71529
Oh, of course. Because Massa is now the new "villain" of Formula 1 (at least according to the majority of McLaren and Hamilton fans I encounter in my day-to-day business), it is absolutely inconceivable that he simply caughy him by accident. My mistake... :rolleyes:

Look. He took the option that he thought would cost him the least, just as Hamilton did in Spa. Hamilton could have backed off and gone around the corner properly there, but he didn't. Or is it completely different because he's driving a silver car and can, so I'm told, do little wrong?

If you seriously think that Massa deliberately tried to take Hamilton out of the race, perhaps I respect you far more than I should.

The situation was closer today that what it was in Belgium. There, Hamilton was caught out by Raikkonen braking so early, had to swerve to avoid him, was slightly ahead of him going into the corner and was close to Raikkonen, who give him no room to stay on the circuit anyway. Today, however, Massa completely out-braked himself while being ahead of Hamilton, was well and truly of the racing line and was sufficiently far away from Hamilton and ahead of Massa in dry conditions to negotiate the corner without using the run-off area. Having watched the incident several times now, perhaps Massa was not trying to shunt Hamilton off the circuit, but he was certainly trying to slip up beside him to gain an advantage - something which he himself criticised Hamilton for supposedly doing at Spa. Deliberate? Unlikely - I take back what I said in this regard - but that was one of the most stupid pieces of driving I've seen this season - and there has been a lot of gaffes. To be honest, I can't recall a championship where the contenders made so many stupid mistakes.


Nor can I, which is why I feel that Kubica would be far more deserving than any of the guys at McLaren or Ferrari this year. I am hoping that now, with only 12 points between himself and Hamilton, he can pull it off. He's made only a single error this year, at Silverstone. There are two races with plenty of potential for Ferrari and McLaren to have problems and for Kubica to capitalise on. If there's a repeat of the mistakes from the past few races, it could quite easily be his.

Yes, he probably was trying to slip up the side to keep as close as possible and his execution of it was all very poor. But it was his best option. He had run so wide that if he was to try to go round the corner properly, Raikkonen would have been able to pass him if he had not first made contact with him. Yes it was a stupid piece of driving, I do not disagree with that, but we have seen so much of it from nearly every driver other than Kubica, Alonso, Heidfeld and Webber this season that, really, it can't have much more of an effect on the embarrassing performances of most of the grid.

His options were:

- Do what he did.
- Carry on going, thus cutting the chicane, and risk getting a penalty.
- Slow down and try to take the corner properly, probably causing an accident with Raikkonen who was quite close when Massa started to turn in.
- Stop and wait for all the cars to go past, losing a lot of positions in the process.

I do not doubt that hitting Lewis was not a deliberate act from Massa. He simply chose the option that would likely lose him the least places and the least time and, unfortunately, couldn't quite manage to keep his car away from Lewis'.

Piffle.


Oh, of course. Because Massa is now the new "villain" of Formula 1 (at least according to the majority of McLaren and Hamilton fans I encounter in my day-to-day business), it is absolutely inconceivable that he simply caughy him by accident. My mistake... :rolleyes:

Look. He took the option that he thought would cost him the least, just as Hamilton did in Spa. Hamilton could have backed off and gone around the corner properly there, but he didn't. Or is it completely different because he's driving a silver car and can, so I'm told, do little wrong?

If you seriously think that Massa deliberately tried to take Hamilton out of the race, perhaps I respect you far more than I should.


I don't think Massa did it deliberately but he came of far too well from what ensued.

He at least should of had a 10 sec stop then go and for his actions against seb he should of recived a 25 sec grind penalty.


Why? Kovalainen tried to pull off a half-hearted attempt at passing Webber at Spa, subsequently causing an avoidable accident and putting Webber down the field with little chance of a decent result. He got a drive-through penalty. So, why should Massa's have been any greater than that? The only time that a greater penalty has been applied for such a result is when those responsible have not been able to finish the race, the penalty being a ten-place grid drop (see Hamilton at Montreal and Nakajima at Melbourne). The Massa-Bourdais incident was not worthy of a penalty in either direction.
By Brazzy23
#71533
His options were:

- Do what he did.
- Carry on going, thus cutting the chicane, and risk getting a penalty.
- Slow down and try to take the corner properly, probably causing an accident with Raikkonen who was quite close when Massa started to turn in.
- Stop and wait for all the cars to go past, losing a lot of positions in the process.

I do not doubt that hitting Lewis was not a deliberate act from Massa. He simply chose the option that would likely lose him the least places and the least time and, unfortunately, couldn't quite manage to keep his car away from Lewis'.

Piffle.


Oh, of course. Because Massa is now the new "villain" of Formula 1 (at least according to the majority of McLaren and Hamilton fans I encounter in my day-to-day business), it is absolutely inconceivable that he simply caughy him by accident. My mistake... :rolleyes:

Look. He took the option that he thought would cost him the least, just as Hamilton did in Spa. Hamilton could have backed off and gone around the corner properly there, but he didn't. Or is it completely different because he's driving a silver car and can, so I'm told, do little wrong?

If you seriously think that Massa deliberately tried to take Hamilton out of the race, perhaps I respect you far more than I should.



I seriously think you are an idiot.
Massa is not the villain, the FIA are. i do not dislike any driver in particular. They are there to race and to overtake and naturally incidents will occur. What Massa did today was out of hand. In my opinion he chose to drive into lewis. That is unacceptable and the punishment should have been more severe. For a start, Massa should have been forced to give up his position to Lewis like Lewis had to in Spa. (Afterall Massa gained a position by cutting the corner).

What i want to know is:
**** Which option did he choose to take? All you have said is "do what he did". Which is pretty much take lewis out.

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