FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[onelapdown]

I'm sure there's no-one on the forum who isn't delighted for Seb Vettel, Gerhard Berger, and all the staff at Torro Rosso's ex-Minardi base in Faenza. However, we all know that the principle difference between Webber's Red Bull and Vettel's Torro Rosso is the engine. Aside from that they are virtually identical. After today's events, I'm wondering to myself what exactly is so bad about that?

As I'm sure most of you are aware, there were discussions at the start of the season about customer cars in F1, with it eventually being decided that they were not to be allowed in future. I really think this is an appalling decision, because as far as the viewer is concerned more cars on the grid, driven by new and exciting drivers (such as Vettel), can only improve the show. We have heard time and again about F1 trying to be greener and cut costs, but surely the easiest way to make running an F1 team cheaper is to allow teams to run year-old cars.

In the 1977 British Grand Prix there were no less than 36 cars entered, of which only 20 could be described as "works" cars. Among the others was a certain Gilles Villeneuve and a March entered by Frank Williams, who was ironically one of the chief opponents to customer cars recently. Did anyone complain about the racing then?

[bud]

well i like F1 to be constructor vs constructor but even then its not an even playing field so i do not see a problem with customer cars like the way Redbull have handled things with same designer but different engines and different owners and personnel!

what i wouldnt like is 4 cars 2 teams with the same factory same HQ and same personnel, in affect one team with 4 cars!

[Kiwi_Chris]

Why not have constructor vs Customer im sure you could work it so that the constructor of the winning car gets points in the constructors championship and not the teams.
It could lead to some interesting 'hybrids' Mclaren Chassie with Ferrari engine anyone.....
Its worth remebering that Williams, Tyrell and even Ferrari started out by running other peoples cars, and Max Mosley got his break into the world of F1 through MARCH which constructed cars for teams in the 70's.
I would love to see customer cars come back to F1 it was a big part of the sport for a long time and im sure it would make the sport more entertaning.


(for those that dont know Ferrari started out running Alfa Romeos )

[McLaren Fan]

In my view, Formula One should be strictly constructor versus constructor. If customer cars were to be allowed, a separate class would have to be created for them.

[Kiwi_Chris]

In my view, Formula One should be strictly constructor versus constructor. If customer cars were to be allowed, a separate class would have to be created for them.

The big question is can the sport survive in todays financal enviroment like that?

[bud]

F1 almost already has different classes with different teams eying each other in terms of constructor table spots!

[scotty]

If customer cars were banned then surely customer engines would have to be as it is a similar premise, which would leave a few teams up creek. If that happened, half the teams would fold, and F1 would go down the pan completely.

If both parties are willing then i see no reason why one team can sell another it's chassis, provided the ongoing development is done by the teams independently from each other. That is a pretty good compromise imo.

[onelapdown]

In my view, Formula One should be strictly constructor versus constructor. If customer cars were to be allowed, a separate class would have to be created for them.

If the cars conform to the same technical regs, why would this be necessary?

The main sticking points when it was discussed, if I remember rightly, were firstly that Customers should not get an equal share of TV revenue as Constructors (a fair point, but a bit rich coming from Williams), secondly that they should not be eligible for Constructors' Championship points (fair enough), and thirdly that several teams feared being embarrassed by customer cars. This third point is pretty weak and the other two are easy to rectify.

[McLaren Fan]

If they can't score any constructors' points, they should be be able to score customer points. That's what I mean. i.e. a little bit like some other racing series in which you have the different classes competing in the same races but scoring points for their own category of car.

[onelapdown]

If they can't score any constructors' points, they should be be able to score customer points. That's what I mean. i.e. a little bit like some other racing series in which you have the different classes competing in the same races but scoring points for their own category of car.

Oh, OK, I agree with that, but there should still only be one Drivers' Championship.

[al4x]

If they can't score any constructors' points, they should be be able to score customer points. That's what I mean. i.e. a little bit like some other racing series in which you have the different classes competing in the same races but scoring points for their own category of car.

Oh, OK, I agree with that, but there should still only be one Drivers' Championship.

posibly to few teams to do that i think, i dunno where i stand on it

would like more companies like ford etc which made both engine and chassis, ideally,

but its expensive and not really profitable

[Denthúl]

In my view, Formula One should be strictly constructor versus constructor. If customer cars were to be allowed, a separate class would have to be created for them.

The big question is can the sport survive in todays financal enviroment like that?

It could, if budget capping was brought in to place. That way, the small manufacturers that have provided us with such entertainment over the years (Williams, Jordan, Minardi, Tyrell, Stewart and so on) could actually afford to race competitively.

[al4x]

In my view, Formula One should be strictly constructor versus constructor. If customer cars were to be allowed, a separate class would have to be created for them.

The big question is can the sport survive in todays financal enviroment like that?

It could, if budget capping was brought in to place. That way, the small manufacturers that have provided us with such entertainment over the years (Williams, Jordan, Minardi, Tyrell, Stewart and so on) could actually afford to race competitively.

and it would be profitable for teams like renault and bmw who sell cars

[onelapdown]

If they can't score any constructors' points, they should be be able to score customer points. That's what I mean. i.e. a little bit like some other racing series in which you have the different classes competing in the same races but scoring points for their own category of car.

Oh, OK, I agree with that, but there should still only be one Drivers' Championship.

posibly to few teams to do that i think

In BTCC there is (or was last time I looked closely) a Drivers' Championship, a Constructors' Championship, and a Teams' Championship. The teams bit is simply an add-on to the constructors. Frankly I don't think it would be necessary - teams could run customer cars as a warm-up to becoming constructors at a later date, without having a teams' championship, or else it could simply be that the first two cars from a constructor are the ones that score points regardless of team.

[Jabberwocky]

I think if someone tried to start an F1 team now it would be near impossible without the massive amount of money that a very big company could provide.

Who was the last true independent team that started up from nothing ie not taking over another team?

think about the cost of year 1, designing a car not even racing it, so there would be no revenue
50 Million bond to the FIA
buying all the additional kit that would be needed Premises, a fully kitted out workshop, motorhomes etc etc

it is a massive task and undertaking.

I know Super Aguri did the same sort of thing, but how much kit/money/help/support did they get from honda