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#64428
From Planet F1:

Thursday 11th September 2008

Charlie Whiting's role in the stewards' investigation of Lewis Hamilton's move past Kimi Raikkonen during the Belgian GP has been thrust back into the spotlight amid reports that the Race Director advised the stewards to study Hamilton's driving despite previously advising McLaren he had driven within the rules.

In their press release that announced their intention to appeal Hamilton's demotion from first to third, McLaren stressed that they had twice received assurances from race control that Hamilton's manoeuvre was 'okay'. Speaking immediately after the race, team boss Ron Dennis specifically named Whiting as providing those assurances.

Yet while Whiting's approval of Hamilton's move may prove integral to McLaren's defence if their appeal is heard, fresh reports claim that Whiting was also pivotal in the stewards deciding to launch their investigation.

In his blog, The Times F1 correspondent Ed Gorman claims that I have established that, despite having appeared to convey to McLaren that Lewis had done nothing wrong, Whiting himself then played a key role in instigating the formal investigation of the incident by the stewards.

'After every race it is normal procedure, apparently, for the stewards to enquire of the race director if there is anything that should be looked at. Whiting is thought to have said to them that, although he had been in touch with McLaren about the exchange between Lewis and Kimi on lap 42, the stewards may still want to have a look at it themselves.'

It remains unclear - and apparently unknown - whether Whiting specifically advised the three stewards that he had assured the McLaren pitwall that he felt Hamilton's move was legitimate.

At the very least, the confusion over Whiting's role in the process adds to the sense of unease that the stewards' decision was essentially subjective and Hamilton was punished on account of their own opinion in the absence of any hard evidence. McLaren's press release stressed that Hamilton had slowed by 6kph along the straight to allow Raikkonen to re-pass - a fact that they seemingly believe was ignored or not taken into account by the stewards.

The apparent ambiguity of Whiting's position - and his subsequent failure to provide any clarity as to how and why the stewards launched their investigation - has also had the unfortunate, but inevitable, side-affect of allowing conspiracy theories to flourish.

In his own blog on the investigation, ITV reporter Ted Kravitz has questioned whether there may have been a sinister influence that caused the three stewards to probe Hamilton's actions.

'But if Charlie thought what Lewis did was okay at the time, why was the incident put under investigation at all?' he asks pointedly.

'Did Whiting change his mind? Did the stewards instigate the investigation? (They are allowed to do this, by the way.) Or did someone else in the FIA advise Whiting to have another look at the incident in detail?'

So many loaded questions and, as yet, so few answers.
Last edited by McLaren Fan on 11 Sep 08, 13:05, edited 1 time in total.
#64441
Incompetence pure and simple :rolleyes:

stupid Euro trash aka the FIA :thumbdown:


Stupid Euro trash ha....... why don't we suggest that your Australian CAMS runs the show then. I bet they wouldn't get too far........... :thumbup::yes::hehe:
#64444
Incompetence pure and simple :rolleyes:

stupid Euro trash aka the FIA :thumbdown:


Stupid Euro trash ha....... why don't we suggest that your Australian CAMS runs the show then. I bet they wouldn't get too far........... :thumbup::yes::hehe:


CAMS is affiliated to the FIA unfortunately but they do not have half the BS that goes on in F1 in our V8 Supercars! there is no petty nationalism or under the table bonuses getting in the way
#64448
Incompetence pure and simple :rolleyes:

stupid Euro trash aka the FIA :thumbdown:


Stupid Euro trash ha....... why don't we suggest that your Australian CAMS runs the show then. I bet they wouldn't get too far........... :thumbup::yes::hehe:


CAMS is affiliated to the FIA unfortunately but they do not have half the BS that goes on in F1 in our V8 Supercars! there is no petty nationalism or under the table bonuses getting in the way


Really now. I know about your touring car championships "dark" past. Let me see, in the very late 80s and early 90s when it was Group A and the Nissan Skyline GT-Rs were winning, they hated that didn't they. Simple becaise Ford and Holden were getting their butts kicked so then they go change the rules into a V8 formula so only Ford Falcons and Holden Commodores could compete. Now tell me there is no bias there. Heaven forbid now that if Toyota were to ever introduce a V8 Camry or something and race that and win, CAMS would make a new rule allowing only makes from Ford and Holden to race. There is natialism there bigtime. Australian makes only, boo to Japanese makes. I know how the crowd behaves there don't worry about that!
#64453
first of all i of anyone know all about the GT-R's group A history i owned an R32 GT-R secondly there was no bias against it perse but more a dislike from the V8 brigade by its dominance and more against Turbo's as a whole including the Ford Sierra.
But the V8 Supercar concept began when Group A fell apart WORLD WIDE and it was to help boost locally made cars so the ruling is the cars have to be made in Australia. There is talk that Toyota is going to enter as the Camry is built in Avalon Victoria.
#64458
first of all i of anyone know all about the GT-R's group A history i owned an R32 GT-R secondly there was no bias against it perse but more a dislike from the V8 brigade by its dominance and more against Turbo's as a whole including the Ford Sierra.
But the V8 Supercar concept began when Group A fell apart WORLD WIDE and it was to help boost locally made cars so the ruling is the cars have to be made in Australia. There is talk that Toyota is going to enter as the Camry is built in Avalon Victoria.


Funny how no one cared that the Sierras were winning. Maybe because it was a Ford? And I do remember that the Ford fans were booing Mark Skaife and Jim Richards at the end of the 1992 Bathurst 1000 because they won in a Nissan Skyline GT-R and believed that Dlck Johnson and John Bowe in their Ford Sierra should of won after the race was red flagged towards the end because of sudden heavy rain fall and unfortunalty for the Ford fans, the Nissan crashed out after the red flag came out and completed the lap in which it had lead. Nice try Bud but not good enough. Bias, bias, bias.............
#64459
Get back on the daym topic ok! AKR you dont need to feel like you are being personaly attacked everytime bud or someone else speak's less than highly of european's.
#64462
Get back on the daym topic ok! AKR you dont need to feel like you are being personaly attacked everytime bud or someone else speak's less than highly of european's.


On the other hand Bud goes out of his way to attack me. But that's fine lets return to the original topic. :)
#64464
Get back on the daym topic ok! AKR you dont need to feel like you are being personaly attacked everytime bud or someone else speak's less than highly of european's.


She must be <EDITED FOR CONTENT> herself then :hehe:
#64469
Get back on the daym topic ok! AKR you dont need to feel like you are being personaly attacked everytime bud or someone else speak's less than highly of european's.


She must be <EDITED FOR CONTENT> herself then :hehe:

That is NOT funny mate and you should apologize to her for that but I doubt you will so please dont do it again.
#64475
Get back on the daym topic ok! AKR you dont need to feel like you are being personaly attacked everytime bud or someone else speak's less than highly of european's.


She must be <EDITED FOR CONTENT> herself then :hehe:

That is NOT funny mate and you should apologize to her for that but I doubt you will so please dont do it again.


No i wont!
#64495
maybe it was all a setup by Whiting then...he advised McLaren that the move was fine, and then told the stewards to look into it after the race when there was nothing the team or Lewis could do (i.e. give the place back and avoid the penalty). Obviously I'm exaggerating, but you can never be too careful...
#64498
to get back on topic... :rolleyes:

I do think the Charlie Whiting question is a key one. How much of a role does he have in the stewards decision? Does he have to tell the stewards of EVERY incident and leave it to them to decide which to investigate? Does he have discretion in saying one particular incident merits investigation? And if so, can he give his own opinion and how much weight does it actually carry? Perhaps most interesting of all in light of Sir Jackie Stewart's comments, do these working relationships change from race to race?

Also there's the question of the context of Whiting's "OK"s to McLaren. There's a big difference between:
"hmm, I suppose you're OK":scratchchin:
and
"Yeah, that's OK":thumbup:
Perhaps the fact that McLaren contacted Whiting twice shows that the original "OK" was not as unequivocal as McLaren hoped it could have been.

In the end though the story that this post starts with stems from the wording "following a report from the race director" on the stewards' report which may mean Whiting put them on to it, but may simply be a standard format of words.
#64501
maybe it was all a setup by Whiting then...he advised McLaren that the move was fine, and then told the stewards to look into it after the race when there was nothing the team or Lewis could do (i.e. give the place back and avoid the penalty). Obviously I'm exaggerating, but you can never be too careful...

It sounds pretty clear to me. Whiting was asked on more than one occasion whether or not he thought Hamilton's pass on Raikkonen was legitimate. On each occasion, Whiting said the move was perfectly fine. Why, then, after the race did he feel the need to refer this to the stewards? What a snake.

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