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[scousers on tour 2008]

Felipe Massa says Lewis Hamilton was “too optimistic” in trying to retake Kimi Raikkonen for the lead of the Belgian Grand Prix so soon after short-cutting the track.

Hamilton won last Sunday's race on the road, but was later given a 25-second penalty for missing the Bus Stop chicane during his dramatic battle with Raikkonen in the closing laps, demoting him to third place.

Although he immediately lifted off the throttle to let the Ferrari back through, the stewards deemed that he had gained an unfair advantage since he repassed Raikkonen under braking for the next corner, La Source, a matter of seconds later.

Having watched replays of the incident Massa believes the stewards' decision was justified because Hamilton "only partially" handed the lead back and did not fully restore the status quo.

“What Lewis did is the sort of thing that can happen, but I think he was maybe a bit too optimistic in thinking he could just hand back the position, albeit only partially to Kimi and then immediately try and pass him again," Massa said on Ferrari's official website.

“Incidents like this have often been discussed in the official driver briefings when it has been made absolutely clear that anyone cutting a chicane has to fully restore the position and also any other eventual advantage gained."

[Big Azza]

Makes sense.

If only Hamilton waited.

But there is no way to tell that Hamilton had an unfair advantage. Plus, we are all forgetting that Hamilton did give back the lead a second time, and a gap of a second, albeit by him slipping off the road. Not his fault Raikkonen spun out momentarily after he regained the lead again.

I admit, I have had a couple of "what-if" thoughts. But then, bud was kind to remind everybody that IF Hamilton still maintained momentum, he lost it all we he ended up in the grass 10 seconds later. And he slowed down considerably then. But, as soon as Raikkonen regained the lead, he spun out.

In my opinion, and no one, NO ONE AT ALL CAN ARGUE THIS, any "momentum" gained by Hamilton, IF ANY, was cancelled out by the incident later on. You cannot justify a penalty, on MOMENTUM.

Especially when Raikkonen gained the lead a second time. The incident at the bus stop is QUESTIONABLE, but no one can argue that point above. NOBODY.

[AKR]

Makes sense.

If only Hamilton waited.

But there is no way to tell that Hamilton had an unfair advantage. Plus, we are all forgetting that Hamilton did give back the lead a second time, and a gap of a second, albeit by him slipping off the road. Not his fault Raikkonen spun out momentarily after he regained the lead again.

I admit, I have had a couple of "what-if" thoughts. But then, bud was kind to remind everybody that IF Hamilton still maintained momentum, he lost it all we he ended up in the grass 10 seconds later. And he slowed down considerably then. But, as soon as Raikkonen regained the lead, he spun out.

In my opinion, and no one, NO ONE AT ALL CAN ARGUE THIS, any "momentum" gained by Hamilton, IF ANY, was cancelled out by the incident later on. You cannot justify a penalty, on MOMENTUM.

Especially when Raikkonen gained the lead a second time. The incident at the bus stop is QUESTIONABLE, but no one can argue that point above. NOBODY.

Forget about the penalty for a moment. Concentrating on Lewis Hamilton himself, he needs to get more maturity. I think with experience this will come. In reality there were still 2 and half long laps to go and Kimi could not hold off Lewis Hamilton. Had he just waited a little longer he would of passed Kimi anyway. He would of done so cleanly as well and no penalty of this sort would of even ever been passed. Regardless of what happens with the appeal, this can certainly be treated as a positive learning step for the always maturing Lewis Hamilton.

[dant]

Makes sense.

If only Hamilton waited.

But there is no way to tell that Hamilton had an unfair advantage. Plus, we are all forgetting that Hamilton did give back the lead a second time, and a gap of a second, albeit by him slipping off the road. Not his fault Raikkonen spun out momentarily after he regained the lead again.

I admit, I have had a couple of "what-if" thoughts. But then, bud was kind to remind everybody that IF Hamilton still maintained momentum, he lost it all we he ended up in the grass 10 seconds later. And he slowed down considerably then. But, as soon as Raikkonen regained the lead, he spun out.

In my opinion, and no one, NO ONE AT ALL CAN ARGUE THIS, any "momentum" gained by Hamilton, IF ANY, was cancelled out by the incident later on. You cannot justify a penalty, on MOMENTUM.

Especially when Raikkonen gained the lead a second time. The incident at the bus stop is QUESTIONABLE, but no one can argue that point above. NOBODY.

I agree with this,

With the incident at the bus stop, Hamilton was about 1/4 car length in front of Kimi on the way into that corner, due to him out breaking him, but Kimi obviously had the better line through.

People have said that Lewis didnt out break him into the bus stop, that he just over cooked it, but they both breaked late, locked up a the front right, and after watching the replay again in slow motion, Lewis came off the breaks earlier than Kimi, suggesting that he had not overcooked it but had slowed enough
for a speed which he could take the corner, only for Kimi to keep his line, leaving him with no option but to cut the chicane.

Hes then accused of not giving Kimi enough of an advantage on the next straight and saying that he had the momentum to overtake again, this bit i cant understand as he lets off the throttle (we know this is true from the McLaren reports). So how can a McLaren that has let off the throttle to let a car past have more momentum than a Ferrari that has been on the throttle all the way since the exit of the bus stop.
The argument that Lewis wouldnt have been that close to Kimi if it wasnt for cutting the chicane is true but when he was obviously infront on the way into the bus stop, i think he deserved to be at least right on his bottom, otherwise Lewis would have been at a disadvantage.

[Big Azza]

Forget about the penalty for a moment. Concentrating on Lewis Hamilton himself, he needs to get more maturity. I think with experience this will come. In reality there were still 2 and half long laps to go and Kimi could not hold off Lewis Hamilton. Had he just waited a little longer he would of passed Kimi anyway. He would of done so cleanly as well and no penalty of this sort would of even ever been passed. Regardless of what happens with the appeal, this can certainly be treated as a positive learning step for the always maturing Lewis Hamilton.

I agree with you AKR. Which means I finally get to use this smiley!



But seriously, I do agree. If only Hamilton waited a bit longer! He still doesn't deserve the penalty, but all of this could have been avoided if he waited.

[McLaren Fan]

Massa's words are almost a carbon copy of what Domenicali said on Sunday evening. This is not Massa's view, but what he has been told to say by his superiors at Ferrari and him looking out for his own and his team's title challenge.

[bud]

Massa HAS to agree with the decision for his own championship dreams. or deep down he knows he will have to get more than those 8 points he currently lies behind Hamilton....... Im ignoring the decision no way in hell Massa deserves to be 2 points behind Hamilton

although Massa was for the blocking decision against Fernando at Monza i remember he and Toad trying to put forward their case.... how the f*** could they justify that as a block and keep a straight face

[AKR]

Forget about the penalty for a moment. Concentrating on Lewis Hamilton himself, he needs to get more maturity. I think with experience this will come. In reality there were still 2 and half long laps to go and Kimi could not hold off Lewis Hamilton. Had he just waited a little longer he would of passed Kimi anyway. He would of done so cleanly as well and no penalty of this sort would of even ever been passed. Regardless of what happens with the appeal, this can certainly be treated as a positive learning step for the always maturing Lewis Hamilton.

I agree with you AKR. Which means I finally get to use this smiley!



But seriously, I do agree. If only Hamilton waited a bit longer! He still doesn't deserve the penalty, but all of this could have been avoided if he waited.

I am stupid ha? Not as stupid as Lewis Hamilton who was inpatient at having to pass Kimi. *LOL*
Just joking of course as I am sure you were too.

[bud]

[Big Azza]

:rolleyes:

No AKR, you aren't stupid....

[AKR]

:rolleyes:

Bud it was meant to be a joke so lighten up a bit will ya.

[bud]

There are times when one should really bite one's lip.

While Bernie Ecclestone is a master of the throwaway quip he often finds himself in trouble, like the time, when asked about the possibility of a woman racing in F1 he replied; "women should be dressed in white like all the other domestic appliances", a comment that went down like a lead balloon in certain circles, particularly at a time when Danica Patrick was on the ascendant.

More recently, Ecclestone was lucky to avoid a media backlash for a quip he made about the 2012 Olympics, due to take place in London.

At a time when many were wondering how the London organisers are going to match the spectacle of Beijing, Ecclestone was asked if he had any advice for them: "I suppose pray there's an earthquake or something so it doesn't happen," was the response.

Considering the fact that more than 50,000 people lost their lives in south-west China just a couple of months earlier, after an earthquake wreaked havoc leaving almost a million homeless, it was a crass remark, to say nothing of the fact that most Londoners remember that the very day after the announcement that London had got the Olympics, 55 people were killed in a series of terrorist bombings.

The point is, as we have said, there is a time to joke and there is a time to bite one's lip.

Strange therefore that Surinder Thathi, one of the three Race Stewards involved in Sunday's controversial decision, has made a similar gaffe.

Whilst he defended the decision, and refuted claims of bias, he told Reuters: "I know I am a very unpopular person in the United Kingdom now, but then I was doing my job and I know I acted professionally."

However, at a time when sensitivity is still running at fever pitch, he told Kenya's Daily Nation: "The British Press hates me but I can walk into any Italian restaurant... Italians love me."

Italians love you huh , i wonder why..... i bet when you walk into said Italian restaurants youll get your pay cheque
seriously if you were acting professionally then that thought shouldnt have krept into your corrupt head and you sure as hell wouldnt make fun of your own stupidity

[onelapdown]

“What Lewis did is the sort of thing that can happen, but I think he was maybe a bit too optimistic in thinking he could just hand back the position, albeit only partially to Kimi and then immediately try and pass him again," Massa said on Ferrari's official website. “Incidents like this have often been discussed in the official driver briefings when it has been made absolutely clear that anyone cutting a chicane has to fully restore the position and also any other eventual advantage gained."

Why couldn't Felipe just keep his mouth shut? The more I see of the guy, the more I like him, and my opinion of him has gone up and up this year, but this is one of those situations where he should have just said nothing and let it pan out. He has a view which is reasonable and backed up by an argument, fair enough, but he now opens himself up to the argument that he is happy to win the Championship by having Hamilton penalised, which doesn't help him at all.

The fact that it is from Ferrari's website leads me to question how much of this is his own view and how much is Ferrari playing politics, but really it would be better for all concerned if the drivers were left out of it.

[8-ball]

This comment from Massa is completely stupid.

[bud]

"Arriving in Monza as the winner of the last race is a boost"

You did not win anything Felipe but ok does this win make you the new rain master now?