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#63521
OK folks I think things are getting ridiculously out of control here ( and that coming form me means things must really be bad). The penalty was bunk, there's really no question about it but, really, just move on. Prost should have been champ in 84 but for a stopped race and half points!! Outrageous. Then again Mario Andretti won his second Indy 500 in 1981 on a penalty to Bobby Unser only to have it overturned FOUR MONTHS later, giving the win back to BU. Point is, $hiit happens and everyone deals and moves on.
#63523
From: The stewards of the meeting

To: The team manager, Vodafone McLaren Mercedes

The stewards, having received a report from the Race Director and having met with the drivers and team managers involved, have considered the following matter, determine a breach of the regulations has been committed by the competitor and impose the penalty referred to.

No./driver: 22, Lewis Hamilton

Time: 15:21:33

Facts: Cut the chicane and gained an advantage

Offence: Breach of Article 30.3(a) of the 2008 FIA Formula 1 sporting regulations and Appendix L chapter 4 Article 2 (g) of the International Sporting Code.

Penalty: Drive-through penalty (Article 16.3 (a)), since this is being applied at the end of the race, 25 seconds will be added to the driver’s elapsed race time.

FIA Stewards of the Meeting

Received by: Lewis Hamilton, Vodafone McLaren Mercedes




The reality is that had there been a wall at that corner then Hamilton would have braked hard and dropped in behind Raikkonen. Consequently, braking hard would also have meant that Hamilton would drop to a slower than required speed to take the corner, and on exiting Raikkonen would have pulled a good 2-3 car lengths on him. Therefore Hamilton would never have been in a position to pass him at the next corner.

But instead Hamilton didn’t do that, he kept his speed by crossing the track and waited for Raikkonen to catch up where he then was able to duck in to within a foot or two of Kimi’s rear wing, (a place he certainly would not have been had he driven within the rules) and then used the slip stream to pass him at the end of the next corner.


Now feel free to tell me why someone who voluntarily broke the rules, and gained an advantage by doing so, should escape punishment.

Would anyone care to discuss the merits of robbing a bank, and then on realising the police were outside waiting for you, you decide to return the money. According to most on this forum (Hamiltonites/Ferrari haters) you haven’t committed any crime…..lol


Ah, if only there was a wall.

But then again, if there was a nude beautiful blonde somewhere inner side of the curve, they would probably both try to cut the curve much as possible and neither would be pushed out of the track (and into the wall that isn't there anyway). Ah, the possibilities.

How about this one: if there was a wall, Kimi would not push Lewis that much wide because he would know Lewis has no where to go and would have to choose wall or Kimi to crash into - and choice he'd make is kind of obvious as wall is not competing with him, but Kimi is; so Lewis maybe would slow down, but then again maybe not - he can be a Maverick - and Kimi would maybe try to squeeze him by the wall but then again maybe not because Lewis might damage Kimi's car - intensionally or just by bouncing off the wall - and Kimi would loose his precious points (as Kimi is not racing only Lewis, but Massa as well).

We could ad some more ingredients and go on and on and on, but if we stay with the facts, Lewis tried to overtake Kimi by breaking later, Kimi took a bit agressive defensive posture that sent Lewis off the track and gave him advantage. It happens all the time. Lewis in return let Kimi pass him by the full length of the car. I've seen that crap about Lewis cheating there (by keeping momentum and what not) but I don't see how could he do that - he had to slow down in order to let Kimi pass him and for that to happen, at some point Kimi had to accelerate faster than Lewis. That Kimi seemed a bit perplexed and confused and failed to press much as he could in order to keep Lewis back is hardly Lewis' problem.

And one more thing regarding what Lewis/Kimi/Dalai-Lama woud think in such situation... 2 laps before the end of the race, in the heat of fighting for No.1 with your direct competitor for the title, in situation where track condition deteriorates every second - I think that it all boils down to instincts and desire. Did Lewis casually think "hey look, there's a curve without outer wall, I'll push hard and force Kimi to go defensive and push me out so that I can cut the curve, get advantage, then let Kimi overtake me while keeping my momentum (?!?) and get him again!"..? I don't think so. Did Kimi have enough time to coolly analyze situation and come to conclusion "hey, look, there's a curve without outer wall, Lewis will go reckless 'cause he has no wall to fear and I'll push him out so that he gets illegal advantage by cutting curve, but he is smart boy so he'll let me pass him but I'll do that sooo sloppy that he'll easily take on me again and look as if he managed to keep momentum for what our boys in FIA will demote him 25 seconds - easy!"..? I don't think so.

Everyone here knows I don't like Lewis so it is not easy for me to go down this path - but in this case I believe there were no intentions of foul play and, under circumstances that developed during their fight (missing walls and all that jazz), both drivers managed their actions within rules and regulations.
#63531
the reality is you know nothing about Racing if there was a wall there Lewis would not have attempted that pass would he now????

i really hate you Ferrari fans you know nothing about racing you probably have never raced anything in your pathetic little lives so just STFU and feel happy your team wins in such ways :thumbdown:




I've been racing in motorsport for well over 22 years thanks very much. Enough to know that Hamilton could very easily have dropped in behind Raikkonen, in fact if you bother to watch the footage you will see that he practically was behind Raikkonen at the time he decided that he'd prefer to cut across the chicane.

It was a decision not forced upon him but one he voluntarily made.

He cut the chicane, gained an advantage in doing so which allowed him to pass at the very next corner.

Hence the deserved penalty.
#63532
22 years huh then you should know that Hamilton was on his gearbox before the bus stop, he let kimi go ahead after he cut the chicane and again was back on his gear box end of story!

How can one gain an advantage by slowing down? he is no longer carrying any momentum and was again behind Kimi! And what would you do with your 22 years of racing experience would you give him 2 seconds 3 seconds? youre racing FFS you let him go infront and then its game on again! :banghead:

if he did not slow down and let kimi back in front i would expect this penalty! Just reverse the cars and i wonder if you would be singing the same tune! and i bet if it was reversed there would be no punishment for the Ferrari International Assistance would not do that ;)

Kimi's squiggly trail braking was not exactly to the rules either huh but it is in damp conditions so usually the stewards are abit more lenient in such areas

theres too much political bullpoo that ruins F1 and the fans are just as bad if they cannot see this was a wrong decision that ruined a great battle ! :thumbdown::censored:
#63533

Everyone here knows I don't like Lewis so it is not easy for me to go down this path - but in this case I believe there were no intentions of foul play and, under circumstances that developed during their fight (missing walls and all that jazz), both drivers managed their actions within rules and regulations.


Then I suggest you re-familiarise yourself with the rules and regulations, especially around the illegalities of bypassing chicanes.....within the rules indeed... :rolleyes:
#63534

Everyone here knows I don't like Lewis so it is not easy for me to go down this path - but in this case I believe there were no intentions of foul play and, under circumstances that developed during their fight (missing walls and all that jazz), both drivers managed their actions within rules and regulations.


Then I suggest you re-familiarise yourself with the rules and regulations, especially around the illegalities of bypassing chicanes.....within the rules indeed... :rolleyes:


seems you need a crash course in the rules and regulations :rolleyes: although its quite obvious McLaren has a different set of rules :wink:
#63536
22 years huh then you should know that Hamilton was on his gearbox before the bus stop, he let kimi go ahead after he cut the chicane and again was back on his gear box end of story!


Please he may well have been on his gearbox but as he failed in his overtaking bid, had he bothered to stay on the road as is the rule, he would have had to break hard to get behind Kimi and therefore drop 2-3 car lengths behind, meaning he would not have been on his gearbox at the next corner

How can one gain an advantage by slowing down? he is no longer carrying any momentum and was again behind Kimi! And what would you do with your 22 years of racing experience would you give him 2 seconds 3 seconds? youre racing FFS you let him go infront and then its game on again! :banghead:


Slowed down? According to his own team he slowed down a total of 6kmh a disadvantage gone in a nano second thanks to the benefits of slipstreaming. He slowed down just enough of course to easily allow him to slip centremetres from Kimi's rear wing which allowed him to pass at the very next corner. Thus choosing to ILLIEGALLY cut across the chicane meant he placed himself in an ADVANTAGEOUS position in order to pass Kimi again at the very next. A position he would not have been in had he chosen to stay on the track AS IS THE RULES.


It's not rocket science


Everyone here knows I don't like Lewis so it is not easy for me to go down this path - but in this case I believe there were no intentions of foul play and, under circumstances that developed during their fight (missing walls and all that jazz), both drivers managed their actions within rules and regulations.


Then I suggest you re-familiarise yourself with the rules and regulations, especially around the illegalities of bypassing chicanes.....within the rules indeed... :rolleyes:[/quote]

seems you need a crash course in the rules and regulations :rolleyes: although its quite obvious McLaren has a different set of rules :wink:[/quote]

Oh really? Care to enlighten me oh great and knowledgable one?

Please explain to us the rules in relation to cutting across corners/chicanes?
#63539
Youre sad Rogue if you think this was a fair and coming from someone who rekns they have raced i would expect more! :rolleyes: You are the epitome of what i HATE about Ferrari Lambs.
I admire those who admit this was unfair and think Lewis should not have been punished! they are true sporting fans :thumbup:

Lewis's points may have been taken away but the joy of those closing laps im sure will last in the minds of those who saw it for a long time to come and it will be remembered for what it really was. a hard fought FAIR battle between two guys who in the end history says neither is winner a guy 6 seconds down the road coasting along gets the win :thumbdown:
#63554
Oh and here comes the wrath from Bud, everyone get out before its too late.......


STFU w***er!

take this gutless win its all Ferrari and its pathetic fans like you are good at!! :wink:

stay tuned for the McLaren protest! this isnt over yet duck FIA bullpoo


you know whats funny ultimately Lewis gained no advantage( not that letting a guy pass you again is) because Kimi crashed out

and a guy who had no say in the fight at the end gets the win??? what a duck joke!!

F1 and its governance is pathetic you Europeans sorry to say are the worst bunch of corrupt w**kers i tell ya what :banghead:


Bud you need to take deep breathes and come down. Sorry if I am mistakem Irv, but I am assuming you are a McLaren supporter and another McLaren supporter Bud as snapped at you. He snapped at me too as he thinks I am all for the penalty which I am not. Look Bud there is nothing none of us can do. We are just fans. We have no say. Just sit tight and wait and see what happens. There really isn't much else nobody can do.
#63555
From what I've been reading online this evening, most Ferrari fans don't believe there was anything for which Hamilton could be penalised, but were happy to see him get penalised. So, I'm afraid, the majority of the tifosi have not got one iota of sportsmanship.


While I agreed that there are some tifosi on this board and Mcupporters don't see eye to eye, everyone cheers for their team in any sport no matter how they win, we just need to seperate what happened in Spa is between the FIA and Mclaren not the tifosi or Ferrari because they did not lodge any complains.


Ferrari did indeed lodge a protest and what do you think during the stewards interview Ferrari would have been on McLarens side( the right side) ?? youre kidding yourself they are gutless and will take a win any how :thumbdown:


I believe Ferrari did lodge a protest, but in secret. I had a something from what Domenicali had said which indirectly indicates this. Shifty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Besides why would the Stewards screw over Lewis Hamilton for something that isn't even clear cut. I couldn't believe he got the penalty when I had heard about it either. There has to be more to it and I believe Ferrari did protest and are using their "powers" in the FIA to give them glory again in 2008.
#63558
So everyone can make up there own minds here is some stuff.

Lewis - Kimi battle - Spa 2008

Image

Lewis - Kimi battle - Spa 2008 - Onboard

Image

Clicky for video

Sadly full clip of last few laps was taken down before I could get a copy, It was most exciting viewing. This will have to do for now till we find it again/

Alonso Suzuka 2005 like Hamilton Spa 2008
Don't remember it but this is how it went I am told.
Alonso let Klein re-pass him on the bend into the start/finish.. then Alonso got behind Klein and re-passed him. Then the Stewards told Renault to ask Alonso to give the position back for a 2nd time because he had gained unfair advantage which Alonso did.

Image

Clicky for video
Last edited by Mikep99 on 08 Sep 08, 09:22, edited 2 times in total.
#63564
Hi, I'm new and broadcasting from the land Down Under.

My 2c worth is ... seems re-addressing the situation warrants a penalty. This is wrong, wrong, wrong. Looked all fair and sporting to me. What DIDN'T look sporting was Kimi's weaving heading down to La Source. Dangerous and undisciplined!

FIA = Ferrari In Ascentia :thumbdown:
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