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[McLaren Fan]

From F1 Live:

Detailed computer simulations of next year's sweeping aerodynamic bodywork changes predict that the new rules will lead to more overtaking.

After November's season-ending Brazilian Grand Prix, the Formula One cars of 2009 will look considerably different: smaller wings and no winglets or bodywork appendages.

Also to be altered radically is the rear diffuser, which can take a lot of the blame for processional races like last Sunday's European Grand Prix at Valencia.

"The Toyota is particularly bad," Toro Rosso driver Sebastian Vettel told the German magazine Auto Motor und Sport.

"You cannot get closer than about one second behind," the German explained.

Auto Motor und Sport said McLaren test drivers Pedro de la Rosa and Gary Paffett, at the wheel of the state-of-the-art facility at Woking, were "thrilled" with the exploration of simulated overtaking possibilities for 2009.

© CAPSIS International
Source: GMM

[7UpJordan]

"The Toyota is particularly bad," Toro Rosso driver Sebastian Vettel told the German magazine Auto Motor und Sport.

"You cannot get closer than about one second behind," the German explained.

I thought it was their boring livery making the driver behind doze off.

[McLaren Fan]

The Toyota's shape looks completely uninspiring as well!

[7UpJordan]

The Toyota's shape looks completely uninspiring as well!

And I suppose next year's car will be the same again, just with the mandatory changes made such as chopping wobbly bits off and extending the width of the car.

What would be interesting though would be to compare the simulated 2009 downforce levels compared with those from somewhere like 1985 to 1997 - the last year of the slicks era.

[f1maniac95]

I think that the new regulations will bring more overtaking along with slick tyres then there should be a lot more overtaking.

[Denthúl]

That's rather weird to hear, because the Toyota actually seems to be one of the cars with the least winglets stuck on it. Imagine how hard it would be to follow the F1.08! Still, I'm willing to bet that some of the teams had at least considered designing their car so that it is hard to overtake...

[bud]

That's rather weird to hear, because the Toyota actually seems to be one of the cars with the least winglets stuck on it. Imagine how hard it would be to follow the F1.08! Still, I'm willing to bet that some of the teams had at least considered designing their car so that it is hard to overtake...

i think teams would rather design their cars faster than the guys behind so theres no fear of being overtaken as designing a car to deliberately produce dirty air would require bad aero efficiency thus a slow car

[Denthúl]

That's rather weird to hear, because the Toyota actually seems to be one of the cars with the least winglets stuck on it. Imagine how hard it would be to follow the F1.08! Still, I'm willing to bet that some of the teams had at least considered designing their car so that it is hard to overtake...

i think teams would rather design their cars faster than the guys behind so theres no fear of being overtaken as designing a car to deliberately produce dirty air would require bad aero efficiency thus a slow car

I don't think it could get much slower

[7UpJordan]

That's rather weird to hear, because the Toyota actually seems to be one of the cars with the least winglets stuck on it. Imagine how hard it would be to follow the F1.08! Still, I'm willing to bet that some of the teams had at least considered designing their car so that it is hard to overtake...

i think teams would rather design their cars faster than the guys behind so theres no fear of being overtaken as designing a car to deliberately produce dirty air would require bad aero efficiency thus a slow car

I don't think it could get much slower

I think the only car to ever be really fast and produce lots of dirty air would be the Brabham "fan car". Mario Andretti complained about the dirty air and he was driving the Lotus 79 with its ground-effects, so if it was that bad it really must have been bad.

[7UpJordan]

Last night Al4x and I were discussing this subject on MSN and what effect the lower downforce and slicks would have. Overtaking is obviously going to be much easier and races will be a lot more interesting. We won't get a classics at every single race, but a good normal race is what we'll see instead of the processions, especially at dull Hungary. The clip below is a review of the 1990 Hungarian Grand Prix, I remember when watching this race as a 5 year old it had plenty of overtaking, quite a tense finish and was good to watch even though it wasn't a classic in the mould of Dijon 1979 - and I'm not being biased that this race was good just because Boutsen won when he was driving for Williams .

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CIOcMuBCrk4

Notice how when drivers changed onto fresh rubber they would go on a nig charge like Berger and Senna did when they changed tyres in this race. Also engine differences don't seem to make a difference either in this clip as we see Nannini in a Benetton making a good overtaking move on Patrese - with the Benetton using a less powerful Ford HB V8 engine.

So if the "worst" tracks offer us racing like this next year, I think we'll all be happy.

[texasmr2]

That was an awesome race and I as you hope we see that kind of racing once again!

[McLaren Fan]

... Also engine differences don't seem to make a difference either in this clip as we see Nannini in a Benetton making a good overtaking move on Patrese - with the Benetton using a less powerful Ford HB V8 engine.

That's another thing that annoys me: the engine freeze. At the very least engine development has to be allowed and the engine regulations should be seriously changed sooner rather than later.

[7UpJordan]

... Also engine differences don't seem to make a difference either in this clip as we see Nannini in a Benetton making a good overtaking move on Patrese - with the Benetton using a less powerful Ford HB V8 engine.

That's another thing that annoys me: the engine freeze. At the very least engine development has to be allowed and the engine regulations should be seriously changed sooner rather than later.

Thankfully most of the manufacturers have dug through the loopholes as it were and there has been some engine development to an extent that the Renault V8 is now the least powerful unit.

[Denthúl]

... Also engine differences don't seem to make a difference either in this clip as we see Nannini in a Benetton making a good overtaking move on Patrese - with the Benetton using a less powerful Ford HB V8 engine.

That's another thing that annoys me: the engine freeze. At the very least engine development has to be allowed and the engine regulations should be seriously changed sooner rather than later.

Indeed. The rules governing most parts of the car need to be more lax in general, otherwise it detracts from the innovative nature that F1 is supposed to have.